Some Interesting Lionel Items

[early0electric]

Jim, Your pea green has the same two extra holes in the base as my orange sign one has.
All the rest of mine are the common pea green with the brass sign.

[Terry]

Those extra holes have to be for a single light bulb. Maybe for an O gauge semaphore like the one they made in standard gauge?

Is the metal the same thickness as the regular units. I can't find my Lioneljr signs, but I think they were thinner?

Here's the postwar version of the sign on a 1045 flagman:

 

That's thin aluminum with printed  - not engraved - lettering.

The man is half blue and half brown. He might have been "repaired" by combining parts from an earlier brown man.

[starfire700]

Agreed the extra holes are for electrifying a bulb, but I can't think of any production item that even uses just the base for that sign. Why would Lionel set-up and punch the extra holes, with no application for them.
The LL Jr bases look the same, size, shape, mount holes and metal gauge, but no electric application on the Jr signals.
Since the extra holes would be a separate operation from the blank or form process, they would have had to be done deliberately.
I hate to guess at these things, but possibly something illuminated may have been planned for that size base, pieces were produced, then used for regular production.
I can think of several Marx items that have slots or holes for features planned, but never made regular production. The 3556 scale series caboose was planned to be illuminated with marker lights. Early examples have the marker holes, but it was never made with the markers. Eventually the 2 punches were removed from the tool and the holes disappeared. 

[Terry]

Could the base with the extra holes be from a 60 series early semaphore? I don't have one unpacked yet. I think the 65 semaphore has a big base like the bell or thing with two lights.

[starfire700]

The 62 semaphore, 60 telegraph poles, 76 / 076 2-light block signal, 69 / 069 / 69N and 68 all have the same base (about 2-1/2" square) and same upright, 9".

[Terry]

I'm asking about the early semaphores - Black tin base with round orange pole and wood finial. I think the numbers are 66 and 67. Made in the teens.

[starfire700]

65 and 66 semaphores have same size base as 68, 69, 60 etc, 2-1/2" square. 068 is 2" square.

[starfire700]

I still think the reason for the 068 with extra holes is a lighted accessory, block signal or lamp, was planned on that base, some parts were made, possibly just enough for R&D, but the accessory never went into production, for cost justification, redundancy or whatever reason. The 4 hole bases were then used for 068 signs, maybe some for the shorter  telegraph post without tie bracket (096?).

[starfire700]

Going back on this thread, I see the note that CTT in January 1995 had an article on the extra holes in the 068 base. Can you post a pix of the article or give a summary?
Someone else's guess may be better than mine, or maybe there is proof.

[early0electric]

The article doesn't shed any more light on it than we've already discussed. Just conjecture of it being for some lighted accessory that was never made.

 

[starfire700]

I don't recall seeing the article, but seems my guess agrees with it.

[Terry]

I just got this 38 set today. I was after the late dark olive 38 with strap headlight, but got an interesting car with it.

Here's the set:

 

 This is a very late 38 maybe 1923-24? It's the same color as a common 33 loco. The loco had a binding post, but it's now missing.

This is the hidden gem:

 

A 36 Observation car with the numbers on the side. The numbers on the side were dropped in the mid teens - 1914 or so. This car with latch couplers, lights, oil label, and early 500 series trucks is from the mid 1920s.

The three 35 Pullman cars have the normal number on the end - two say "No. 35," one says only "35."

 

So in this 5 piece set I got two trains I didn't have. A good find.

[starfire700]

Very un usual 36 observation. Lionel was usually more-consistent with their markings.   

[early0electric]

I recently picked up an Outfit 166 (156, 610, 610, 612). Both Pullmans have the corporation stamp but in black ink. I also have a 602 with a black corporation stamp. Normally the corporation stamp is in gold or white ink except on the bottom of orange 603's and 604's which is black. These must have got on the wrong line. Anybody else have these with black ink?
 

[Terry]

I haven't seen black lettering on the bottom of green cars. I bet they used the white or gold for contrast and the black is an error. Interesting variation.