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Discussion Boards => General Discussion => Topic started by: pjdog350 on January 13, 2021, 04:56:22 AM

Title: Lionel 259E motor ?
Post by: pjdog350 on January 13, 2021, 04:56:22 AM
I guess I’ve gotten into something I’ve not seen before. When I got the Lionel 259E delivered the other day I gave it a bath in mineral spirits for get the 80 plus years of crud off of it. There was something that I think may be white grease that was like super glue. Very hard and a real problem to get off. After cleaning the motor up a piece of E-unit fell out. That’s not a good sign. The next thing after cleaning I removed the e-unit. There was no drum. I have a new e-unit but really wanted to repair the old one? I spread the e-unit to get the fingers out and that’s when I saw the drum laying in the bottom of the motor. The fingers look pretty good. I looked for a new drum in the parts supply and I don’t have any. Now it’s the wait for the mailman and a parts order. Seemed like a good time to use the new E-unit. I installed the wires as I took the old ones off. Got all the soldering done. Gave it a test. All I got was a light?

Good time to mention it seemed to me that the brush holder was upside down. The only way I could get the brush plate on was to have it upside down. I think that’s the way Lionel made this motor. I fumbled with this until I reached a major frustration level. The world being like it is today and America being in such a mess I’m out in the mancave so I can get comfortable with life today? Now I have a motor that will not run, a sick dog, a sick wife and a sick 259e?

I’m having a bottle of Merlot wine for breakfast today

Little side information here. I have a good neighbor that has a killer postwar Lionel train collection. His stuff was not gotten on ebay and he repairs it. He gets the super perfect postwar big dollar stuff with the original box?  I’ve not seem him in a long time and my emails are not answered? He only lives 2 blocks away. His wife drove by yesterday while I was helping another neighbor fix a door. She said my friend had CV-19. Been in the hospital sense late August. She said he almost didn’t make it. He will come home on Saturday. It’s getting so life is a real struggle. I sure miss the America I grew up in!
Title: Re: Lionel 259E motor ?
Post by: pjdog350 on January 13, 2021, 09:14:17 AM
brush plate looks upside down but it's the only way it will attach to the motor?
Title: Re: Lionel 259E motor ?
Post by: CNJRR on January 13, 2021, 02:08:15 PM
brush plate looks upside down but it's the only way it will attach to the motor?

A friend wrote this years ago, he has since moved on to the big train ride in the sky.  :(
A copy and paste, maybe it will be of use to someone now or in the future.
He was the King of research.

Speaking of E units, whether they be Pre or Post war items, the only major difference for a particular use, is in the length of wire from the contact fingers, so that they will be long enough to attach to the critical points of the motor. The basic design of the E units hasn't changed, only the lever location of FRONT or BACK mounted, or if the lever is UPWARD or DOWNWARD. The wire length is the only thing that makes a specific E unit compatible to a specific motor. Typically the E unit needs cleaning/repairing/rebuilding, so the wire length shouldn't be an issue, if replacement parts are going to be used. I did some searching on the Prewar versions of which all have the Upward levers.

The forward facing lever (away from the field coil) are the 1661E-5; 1668E-36; & 226E-35

The inward facing lever (toward the field coil) are the 259E-25; 260E-72; & 262E-10

A. 1661E-5 used on 229, 1664,1664E, 1681E, 1688E, 1689E
B. 1668E-36 used on 1662, 63, 64 (1940), 1666, 1666E, 1668E, 1684, 1688
C. 226E-35 used on 224, 224E, 225, 225E, 226, 226E
D. 259E-025 used on 259,259E, 264, 264E, 265, 265E
E. 260E-72 used on 250, 250E, 255E, 263, 263E
F. 262E-10 used on 238, 238E, 249, 249E, 262E

The supply of Prewar E units from dealers is very slim, but by substituting a Postwar E unit, of the same basic design as far as the lever location, there a few choices that can be made. The most common substitution for the FORWARD LEVER is the Postwar 100-25, which many Postwar locos used. The INWARD LEVER has 3 options available, with only difference of wire length, which are Postwar 100-8, 100-11, 2332M-10, all of the same design, different wire lengths.

The 100-8 was used on the #520 ;
The 100-11 was used on the #44,45,204,205,208,209,210,216,217,218,220,224,226.
The 2332M-10 was only used on #2332

By using this information, you can come up with needy replacement using a Postwar unit, and just making the necessary adjusting to wires.

He later added,
I inadvertently missed two E-units from the previous list, which are two units used in the 616 Flying Yankee; and the 752 UP M10000 diesel. The parts are:

A. 752e-2
B. 616E-10

The Postwar replacements are 100-2 or 100-7, which are both downward lever rear models. Again, it is merely the length of wire on each unit, as to whether it is an exact fit, or has to be modified with new wires.
Title: Re: Lionel 259E motor ?
Post by: CNJRR on January 13, 2021, 02:22:26 PM
Kind of pricey?
Title: Re: Lionel 259E motor ?
Post by: CNJRR on January 13, 2021, 02:28:25 PM
Jeff the Train tender is a good man to deal with if you want parts.
I would make a list of other things you may need to save on the shipping. He ships everything in different bags that are labeled.

I think this link will open to the 259e e unit parts. If you have a question feel free to call, he loves to talk trains and if he does not have something he may be able to locate one or recommend another part.

EDIT< on the page that opens look to the left and click on page 3 then scroll to the 259.
Title: Re: Lionel 259E motor ?
Post by: pjdog350 on January 20, 2021, 09:23:43 AM
Finally - I got the 259e motor to run this morning. I completely took the motor apart. I’ve never had all this trouble before. I then put the motor back together temporary fix just to test it. I wired it like a Lionel JR motor. Had nothing??????  After an hour I put the volt ohm meter on the transformer? No voltage. WHAT ! The ZW is dead. I have a ZW that’s on the work bench for motor work. Only took a second to realize it was not plugged in!

With a hot transformer the 259e runs great. Now to put the rebuilt E-Unit in and another test. I have some picture of the mess I made. I hate being old. Brain is not working like it use too? Fingers don’t do well either and the eyes are a mess. I have several pairs of glasses to work on my stuff. I use the pair that fits the job I’m doing. Also use a big magnifying glass when needed. 

I removed everything from the motor. It needs a new drum for the e-unit. Will do fingers also. Plus one of the wheels fell apart when I removed it. So I have wheels on order also. Red spoke wheels.
Title: Re: Lionel 259E motor ?
Post by: CNJRR on January 20, 2021, 03:00:07 PM
I would bet we all have done something like that before.
So the whole problem was just hat the transformer not being plugged in? Ha Ha Ha, an  easy fix huh? :)
You are not alone,:)
Title: Re: Lionel 259E motor ?
Post by: pjdog350 on January 20, 2021, 03:57:25 PM
No it was not just the transformer problem with the 259E to start with. There was a problem with the field winding. An easy fix but the testing was problematic cause the fool doing the test run didn't have the ZW plugged in. I mean WTH there's a green light that say's I'm on? A red light say's I've got a short? I've said it before, I hate being old. However I'm sure happy I love toy trains.

In the morning it's going to be a coupler on the 224 for double heading.
Title: Re: Lionel 259E motor ?
Post by: pjdog350 on January 21, 2021, 05:01:01 AM
This morning I spent time putting the 259E motor back together. I’m not real sure how to make sure the four post that I ground the ends off of so I could open up the motor frame sides will still work. I put all the stuff that belongs in there in and currently holding it together with clamps. I would thing silver solder should work. If anyone has any ideas please share with me.

I’ve always been impressed with how well the Lionel 229 motor runs. I must say the 259E also is a real nice running motor. I think in the beginning Lionel made some really fine things with allot of quality. But all businesses tend to reduce cost to increase profit. Like the early 2026 had a nice trailing truck then they started using a cheap stamped truck.
Title: Re: Lionel 259E motor ?
Post by: pjdog350 on January 25, 2021, 12:41:58 PM
I’m still waiting for the 259E parts to arrive. But I do have the motor running so today I thought I’d break the tender & locomotive down to sand blast and get ready for paint.

Getting the tabs bent to get the locomotive down to it’s smallest part was a challenge. I never had such stiff tabs to open. But I made it. Sometimes it’s hard to believe what some folks do what they do. This entire locomotive was soaked in something that looks like honey. Sticky and everywhere. The hole damn thing was soaked, motor & body. In the morning I’ll give the locomotive body a bath in mineral spirits.

The side rods are riveted to the frame. Guess I’ll grind they off and look for some real small rivets to put it back together. I HATE RIVETS.
Title: Re: Lionel 259E motor ?
Post by: pjdog350 on January 26, 2021, 05:29:02 AM
I put the 259E engine body in material spirits this morning and let it soak a while to get what every the previous owner had put on it. Was still hard to remove. I also removed the value gear from the frame. Some of the tabs where super hard to bend back? Hope I can get this back together without breaking them. This is my first prewar steamer I’ve tried to restore?

I have the tender & steamer body all apart and ready to send blast.

I got a fresh cup of hot coffee, opened up the garage door. The started running the 675 & 224. That’s the way to spend the morning. I noticed that my beacon was working. I think it’s a 394? Works on heat from the light turning the globe. I’ve had a bunch of these and only had one that works. It takes a cool day for it to work. If it’s a normal hot Florida day you get nothing. But when it’s in the 60’s it works.
Title: Re: Lionel 259E motor ?
Post by: pjdog350 on January 30, 2021, 01:56:01 PM
I can't believe I'm still waiting for gears & wheels for the 259E.
 It's been week's?

The body is almost ready for paint! Black!
Title: Re: Lionel 259E motor ?
Post by: pjdog350 on February 17, 2021, 11:43:06 AM
Yesterday all my parts showed up for the 259E. I got new wheels. Which has been stopping all work on the 259.
Title: Re: Lionel 259E motor ?
Post by: pjdog350 on February 23, 2021, 12:40:18 PM
The Lionel 259E wheels I got from my parts guy in New York do not have the post for the eccentric crank. In fact the have no posts at all. The wheels I got from Hemmings have the posts for the crank but both the wheels with the post do not have any teeth for the drive gears.

My 259e needs one geared wheel with a post and pone wheel with a post but no teeth?

How many different wheel sets are there for the 259E.