Post by: Terry on May 06, 2020, 02:43:19 AM
Here's a pair of Lionel 2 7/8" wooden gondolas in the box!
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/83516850_lionel-2-78-powered-gondola-and-trailer (https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/83516850_lionel-2-78-powered-gondola-and-trailer)
Here's powered and dummy Lionel 2 7/8" trolleys:
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/83516849_lionel-2-78-city-hall-park-trolley-and-trailer (https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/83516849_lionel-2-78-city-hall-park-trolley-and-trailer)
You can post links to interesting items you've seen here.
Post by: Terry on May 16, 2020, 01:05:06 AM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-50-Gang-Car-Has-ONE-rare-tan-bumper-NO-MEN-O-gauge-fast-shipping/264731742633 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-50-Gang-Car-Has-ONE-rare-tan-bumper-NO-MEN-O-gauge-fast-shipping/264731742633)
Hmm. One of you postwar collectors should buy it so you can tell use what it is.
Post by: tinplater on May 16, 2020, 12:50:47 PM
Post by: starfire700 on May 17, 2020, 06:45:50 AM
Post by: 2 7/8 collector on June 18, 2020, 01:40:37 PM
I just signed up and noticed the post on the 2 7/8 gons.
I sold the dummy in 1972. Did not know where it went, the floor was replaced by me and Jimmy Cohen gave me the parts to put the truck together.
Marty
Post by: Terry on June 18, 2020, 02:40:45 PM
What is the deal with this auction:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-42-STANDARD-GAUGE-LOCO-NOT-RUNNING-SOME-MINOR-PARTS-MISSING-VG/324191207339 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-42-STANDARD-GAUGE-LOCO-NOT-RUNNING-SOME-MINOR-PARTS-MISSING-VG/324191207339)
A beat up 42 for $725?
Here's a likely steal. Full nickel 213 stock car at $76. ending Friday afternoon. That should be worth hundreds more.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-213-Cattle-Car-Cream-Maroon-Full-Nickle-Trim-No-Flaking/164242770966 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-213-Cattle-Car-Cream-Maroon-Full-Nickle-Trim-No-Flaking/164242770966)
Post by: early0electric on June 18, 2020, 04:52:04 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-Pre-war-O-Gauge-612-Observation-Passenger-Car-Blue-and-Silver/274305770303?hash=item3fdde5e33f:g:zk0AAOSw0WNea93V
Post by: Terry on June 18, 2020, 06:23:54 PM
The Blue and Alum 610/612 cars are uncataloged from about 1935. Very hard to find in nice shape, but not so hard that those beat up cars are worth buying.
They only made them in blue for a short while and then went to red and alum. which is quite common.
Here's an article I wrote on the cars back when I started this site:
https://www.train99.com/ency/lionel1/pass/l610sra.html (https://www.train99.com/ency/lionel1/pass/l610sra.html)
Post by: early0electric on June 18, 2020, 08:51:09 PM
Post by: starfire700 on June 21, 2020, 04:23:27 AM
Post by: Terry on June 26, 2020, 10:00:30 PM
Here's something for you IVES collectors:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Toys-3-American-Flyer-Ives-Train-Cars-13-2-Rail-Track-Pieces-O-Gauge/264776073190?hash=item3da5e23fe6:g:CbgAAOSwIiVe9Td8 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Toys-3-American-Flyer-Ives-Train-Cars-13-2-Rail-Track-Pieces-O-Gauge/264776073190?hash=item3da5e23fe6:g:CbgAAOSwIiVe9Td8)
I don't collect IVES, but think those are better cars?
Post by: starfire700 on July 01, 2020, 03:35:12 PM
Post by: Terry on July 15, 2020, 08:15:23 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/353135491350 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/353135491350)
Post by: early0electric on July 15, 2020, 10:01:25 PM
Post by: Terry on July 16, 2020, 04:30:53 PM
The other half is the money. I sold a tonka Firetruck worth about $200 for $1300 on eBay a few years ago. The buyer called me when he got it to thank me. He said his neighbor had that truck when he was a kid, and he'd just done a forced distribution from his IRA, and decided to buy the truck.
Post by: early0electric on July 16, 2020, 07:53:34 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Lionel-Postwar-Prewar-Train-Collection/154010266496?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D225085%26meid%3D90d252f38ed24ea5b9c89136a4e87146%26pid%3D100036%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D164275104509%26itm%3D154010266496%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DDefaultOrganic%26brand%3DLionel&_trksid=p2047675.c100036.m2109 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Lionel-Postwar-Prewar-Train-Collection/154010266496?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D225085%26meid%3D90d252f38ed24ea5b9c89136a4e87146%26pid%3D100036%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D164275104509%26itm%3D154010266496%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DDefaultOrganic%26brand%3DLionel&_trksid=p2047675.c100036.m2109)
Post by: Terry on July 17, 2020, 12:41:06 AM
I saw that closed once before at $271, so 315 for the pile delivered if you wanted to repaint is not a bad deal. The buyer would pay quick because he'd be afraid the seller would cancel the deal.
Just a quick guesstimate, but if I took those trains to a show in LA, I'd come away with 400 easy.
I bet the bidder you see is the seller's shill bidding account.
I looked at his listings and he is weird. LAZY is a good word. His other listings are similar. Just whatever he got from one person in a large lot.
Here's an idea. . . Maybe it's his pride and joy and he's just listing it so we'll be jealous?
Maybe his wife said, "Get that out of here." So he's listing it on eBay to appease her.
Post by: early0electric on July 22, 2020, 03:15:57 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Bicycle-Catalog-Excellent-Condition-Early-1900s-RARE-Lionel/174358173550?hash=item28988e976e:g:Jc0AAOSwHNxfFesz
Post by: Terry on July 31, 2020, 08:17:11 AM
I saw this last week and thought it would be fun to have. I bet internally it's like a 171 Inverter, but runs on a DC battery. My snipe program just sent me a note saying it had passed my 200 bid. I'm not willing to pay more than that to see how it works and show it off. Maybe one of you want it?
Post by: Terry on July 31, 2020, 06:56:17 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/O-Gauge-Lionel-Locomotive-Two-Cars-for-Parts-or-Restoration/293667963643?hash=item445ff982fb:g:HmkAAOSwdbpfIGG3 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/O-Gauge-Lionel-Locomotive-Two-Cars-for-Parts-or-Restoration/293667963643?hash=item445ff982fb:g:HmkAAOSwdbpfIGG3)
Post by: starfire700 on August 01, 2020, 06:53:14 AM
Some kid must have tired of the dark green color and decided to liven it up.
Post by: Terry on August 01, 2020, 01:10:42 PM
He was a character. He livened up the train meets.
Post by: Terry on August 01, 2020, 07:03:44 PM
Disgusting. You might as well buy a repro, or just plate a 6.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1923-Prewar-Lionel-Standard-Gauge-No-7-Brass-Nickel-Locomotive-8W-Tender-Ex/383660085186?hash=item5953ec4fc2:g:nqUAAOSwugtfJYFU (https://www.ebay.com/itm/1923-Prewar-Lionel-Standard-Gauge-No-7-Brass-Nickel-Locomotive-8W-Tender-Ex/383660085186?hash=item5953ec4fc2:g:nqUAAOSwugtfJYFU)
Post by: early0electric on August 02, 2020, 02:51:13 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1937-Marx-Lionel-Electric-Train-Price-List-Print-Ad-Sears-Catalog-Page-5H2B/254583598542?hash=item3b465d6dce:g:esQAAOSw0i9eqkg7
Post by: starfire700 on August 03, 2020, 05:05:23 AM
Seems cheap, but the bread-winner was probably only bringing home a few dollars a day in 1937.
Sears catalog art department did great work making the Marx Train look almost as desirable as the Lionel set....which was almost $10.
Post by: early0electric on August 07, 2020, 02:56:16 PM
Post by: Terry on August 07, 2020, 06:20:20 PM
Actually, 83 dollars is more than a nice New Bright train set will set you back. You can get a nice new bright set for under 40.
Post by: early0electric on August 08, 2020, 07:01:07 AM
Post by: Terry on August 11, 2020, 12:18:35 PM
https://connect.invaluable.com/stout/auction-catalog/August-Friday-Pre-and-Postwar-Toy-Trains_SHW8L1332X/SHW8L1332X?keywords=prewar
A couple of the listings have odd descriptions . . . "The engine is either really nice C7+ or an older repaint. Overall the set looks nicer than the grade represents."
Here's a neat set with odd condition statement.
https://connect.invaluable.com/stout/auction-lot/ives-prewar-wide-gauge-boxed-set-with-3237-loco-w_32D4915A9E
I have the olive 601/602 passenger cars, and Mike posted pictures of an 801 with the wrong number recently. The trains are neat, but having to qualify them as "might be repainted" lowers the WOW factor.
Post by: early0electric on August 11, 2020, 12:24:52 PM
Post by: Terry on August 11, 2020, 02:29:25 PM
Shouldn't the caboose number be 4890 not 4390? That's what I meant by wrong number.
Now that I realize it's the cupola is black like the roof. Neat.
Post by: early0electric on August 11, 2020, 03:45:11 PM
http://www.tcaetrain.org/articles/collecting/CABOOSE/index.html
Post by: Terry on August 11, 2020, 07:45:10 PM
I just looked at 90 days of eBay sales and all sold 801 cabooses have 4890.
I'll add that to my list of things to look for.
Post by: Terry on August 14, 2020, 06:29:28 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Lionel-Trains-114-Standard-Gauge-C-M-ST-P-Box-Cars/133443417224?hash=item1f11d8f488:g:wAYAAOSw6u9e6hiC
Any boxcar with a number other than 98237 is interesting. I have a 114 box car with 54018 on the side, but mine has an embossed MFG floor without the Lionel Lines stamp on the end. That's a car that I'd keep if I got it with other trains, but otherwise wouldn't buy it.
Post by: early0electric on August 20, 2020, 02:55:12 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-Prewar-Standard-Gauge-1910-1911-11-12-and-Dump-Cars-for-RESTORATION/143688255457?hash=item21747cc7e1:g:PvgAAOSwj8ZfPanF
Post by: Terry on August 21, 2020, 02:08:38 AM
Two sets there. 1910 round cab with two shorty gondolas and 1911 round cab with two 116 hoppers. What is interesting is the hoppers have couplers with tabs. So does the 1910. I bet the pilots on the locos have been switched.
I'd love to have that slide on headlight.
Post by: Terry on August 24, 2020, 02:50:23 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SCARCE-LIONEL-O-GAUGE-PRE-WAR-150-ENGINE-AND-2-CARS-WABASH-RR-CAR-4890/303664332648?hash=item46b3cdff68:g:FYoAAOSwC-5fRCo9 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/SCARCE-LIONEL-O-GAUGE-PRE-WAR-150-ENGINE-AND-2-CARS-WABASH-RR-CAR-4890/303664332648?hash=item46b3cdff68:g:FYoAAOSwC-5fRCo9)
Post by: starfire700 on August 25, 2020, 04:39:08 AM
Post by: Terry on August 25, 2020, 01:58:22 PM
Post by: early0electric on August 27, 2020, 02:36:22 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-ORIGINAL-PREWAR-1917-TOYS-ELECTRIC-TRAIN-CATALOG-38-PAGES-STANDARD-GAUGE/373166329591?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D225085%26meid%3Dde0db41f859245488aafe81b77de4427%26pid%3D100667%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D8%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D313194299995%26itm%3D373166329591%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2334524%26brand%3DLionel&_trksid=p2334524.c100667.m2042
Post by: Terry on September 13, 2020, 12:08:42 AM
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/catalog/178589_autumn-fine-estates-auction/?terms=lionel (https://www.liveauctioneers.com/catalog/178589_autumn-fine-estates-auction/?terms=lionel)
Post by: Terry on September 13, 2020, 12:59:27 AM
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/89937160_vintage-lionel-42-engine-and-partial-set (https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/89937160_vintage-lionel-42-engine-and-partial-set)
They could be really old repaints?
Post by: Terry on September 13, 2020, 06:08:24 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-Orignal-Prewar-33-Black-Loco/303690416013?hash=item46b55bff8d:g:cCIAAOSwlx9fXqsE (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-Orignal-Prewar-33-Black-Loco/303690416013?hash=item46b55bff8d:g:cCIAAOSwlx9fXqsE)
Post by: Terry on September 18, 2020, 07:25:25 PM
After this they went to the stylized scroll lettering and the numbers were moved to the end. Does this observation come with just the word observation on the side?
Here's the eBay listing:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Lionel-35-Passenger-Pullman-coach-36-Observation-car-Std-gauge-NYC/373220457341?hash=item56e5ac3b7d:g:Oc0AAOSwhC1fZVX3
Post by: starfire700 on September 20, 2020, 04:36:55 AM
Post by: Terry on September 21, 2020, 02:21:31 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-8-Locomotive-35-Pullman-36-Observation-Maroon-used/174445721153?hash=item289dc67641:g:NHsAAOSw8vpfaN3s (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-8-Locomotive-35-Pullman-36-Observation-Maroon-used/174445721153?hash=item289dc67641:g:NHsAAOSw8vpfaN3s)
Based on just the steps, the 35 body is earlier than the 36. Interesting.
I have a dark oilve green 35 with just New York Central that has stamped brass steps rather than the soldiered steps on the maroon car above.
I won't be bidding on this lot so have fun.
Post by: starfire700 on September 22, 2020, 05:12:17 AM
Post by: Terry on September 25, 2020, 06:38:22 PM
I'm not sure what that really is, but it looks old.
Here's more photos:
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/90686852_lionel-std-ga-electric-rapid-transit-3-prototype (https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/90686852_lionel-std-ga-electric-rapid-transit-3-prototype)
That auction features some interesting items. Black 212 gondola is probably constructed with parts.
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/90686791_lionel-212-gondola-rare-black-color (https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/90686791_lionel-212-gondola-rare-black-color)
Post by: starfire700 on September 28, 2020, 04:47:34 AM
I agree that the black 212 was likely assembled, using an Ives transition (198?) body.
I had a legitimate 212 in olive, sold it to John DeSantis.
Post by: early0electric on September 28, 2020, 02:36:02 PM
Post by: Terry on October 04, 2020, 07:34:06 PM
Here's a link:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/EARLY-LIONEL-MFG-152-O-GAUGE-LOCO-DOES-NOT-RUN-VG/224181075881 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/EARLY-LIONEL-MFG-152-O-GAUGE-LOCO-DOES-NOT-RUN-VG/224181075881)
Post by: early0electric on October 05, 2020, 09:15:35 AM
Post by: Terry on October 05, 2020, 01:30:25 PM
Here's a rare 252 set Stout listed without pointing it out the ILLINOIS CENTRAL cars.
https://connect.invaluable.com/stout/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-252-peacock-loco-with-607-and-608-p_31A401E9EC
Stout has it estimated at $20-80. I'd say $8-1200 is more realistic. That's a rare set. Last one I heard of selling went for over $3K, but was boxed with 3 cars in 2005. He'll still get a great price becasue the people who know what they are looking at will see it.
Post by: early0electric on October 05, 2020, 02:29:29 PM
ended the auction, relisted them, and then ended the auction again. He must have sold them off eBay.
Post by: Terry on October 05, 2020, 02:54:34 PM
Post by: early0electric on October 05, 2020, 03:26:06 PM
Post by: early0electric on October 05, 2020, 03:34:51 PM
Post by: Terry on October 05, 2020, 05:04:04 PM
But I do not have the orange roof car. My closest one has 820 rather than No. 820 on end and a short number 65784 with a gold corp stamp on bottom.
Post by: early0electric on October 06, 2020, 01:39:27 PM
Post by: Terry on October 15, 2020, 01:07:54 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Early-Lionel-Black-33-Locomotive-MFG-Prewar-Standard-Gauge/114458476970?hash=item1aa641c1aa:g:ob4AAOSw9iNfg7UD (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Early-Lionel-Black-33-Locomotive-MFG-Prewar-Standard-Gauge/114458476970?hash=item1aa641c1aa:g:ob4AAOSw9iNfg7UD)
Post by: Terry on October 17, 2020, 07:39:45 PM
The black Nickel trim 212 gondola sold for $1250 plus buyers premium!
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/90686791_lionel-212-gondola-rare-black-color (https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/90686791_lionel-212-gondola-rare-black-color)
The "LIONEL STD GA ELECTRIC RAPID TRANSIT 3 PROTOTYPE" gondola sold for $1850 plus buyer's premium.
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/90686852_lionel-std-ga-electric-rapid-transit-3-prototype (https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/90686852_lionel-std-ga-electric-rapid-transit-3-prototype)
Both sold to an audience member.
Post by: Terry on October 26, 2020, 12:31:41 AM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-PREWAR-ENGINE-LUBE-CARD-FREE-SHIPPING-ORIGINAL-20-I39/264909308800?hash=item3dadd34380:g:CoIAAOSwZXJfkg4E (https://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-PREWAR-ENGINE-LUBE-CARD-FREE-SHIPPING-ORIGINAL-20-I39/264909308800?hash=item3dadd34380:g:CoIAAOSwZXJfkg4E)
Post by: early0electric on October 26, 2020, 01:31:10 PM
Post by: Brian Miller on October 26, 2020, 06:25:31 PM
Post by: starfire700 on October 28, 2020, 05:20:04 AM
Post by: starfire700 on October 28, 2020, 06:14:41 AM
Post by: Terry on October 30, 2020, 07:47:30 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-LIBERTY-LINES-600E-BLUE-COMET-HUDSON-ENGINE-amp-TENDER-NO-RESERVE-/313268208182?nma=true&si=F6bBASIzSP6NBg6O9lsW4Hruoq8%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-LIBERTY-LINES-600E-BLUE-COMET-HUDSON-ENGINE-amp-TENDER-NO-RESERVE-/313268208182?nma=true&si=F6bBASIzSP6NBg6O9lsW4Hruoq8%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557)
Here's a picture from the listing:
Post by: Terry on November 01, 2020, 09:47:00 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-12-PREWAR-STANDARD-GAUGE-GONDOLA/133563235376?hash=item1f18fd3c30:g:wC8AAOSwmfFfieET (https://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-12-PREWAR-STANDARD-GAUGE-GONDOLA/133563235376?hash=item1f18fd3c30:g:wC8AAOSwmfFfieET)
I don't want this one so have fun.
Post by: Terry on November 06, 2020, 03:05:05 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-Prewar-O-Gauge-Cars-Mixed-bag-of-Three/114503960464?hash=item1aa8f7c790:g:RloAAOSwi2RfpdSS
That seller has listed some interesting items in the past week or so. I think he also joined the forum, but hasn't posted yet.
Post by: starfire700 on November 08, 2020, 04:56:10 AM
Post by: Terry on November 08, 2020, 12:50:09 PM
Post by: Terry on November 14, 2020, 06:03:10 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-prewar-postwar-parts-bulb-covers/143836561962?hash=item217d53c22a:g:ga0AAOSwnF1fpZ-P (https://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-prewar-postwar-parts-bulb-covers/143836561962?hash=item217d53c22a:g:ga0AAOSwnF1fpZ-P)
It took me a few minutes to figure it out. They have nothing to do with bulbs. They are prewar parts.
Post by: starfire700 on November 15, 2020, 10:58:43 AM
Post by: early0electric on November 15, 2020, 02:30:33 PM
Post by: Terry on November 15, 2020, 03:21:22 PM
It took me a while to figure that out. The big clue was the three tabs.
Post by: early0electric on November 17, 2020, 03:27:54 PM
Post by: Terry on November 18, 2020, 11:15:55 AM
Here's an interesting trolley from the teens with a Lionel motor jammed in it.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/model-train-0-scale-Trolley-Bing-chassie-Lionel-motor-f-only/264943100442?hash=item3dafd6e21a:g:7JUAAOSwlQNftGsE
Post by: early0electric on November 19, 2020, 02:37:58 PM
Post by: starfire700 on November 20, 2020, 04:36:46 AM
I was able to find a box of large tipped globe bulbs that I use in lamp posts, but only illuminate on special occasions.
Post by: Terry on December 04, 2020, 12:57:09 AM
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/unusual-lionel-prewar-master-carton-for-50-keys-f-864-c-00a492a8e9 (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/unusual-lionel-prewar-master-carton-for-50-keys-f-864-c-00a492a8e9)
Here's something I find interesting:
I've owned a few of these orange 815s and even still do. EVERY one I have ever examined shows signs of being taken apart. This one too:
Link: https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/nice-lionel-prewar-815-shell-tank-car-only-811-c-fc14c0aa03 (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/nice-lionel-prewar-815-shell-tank-car-only-811-c-fc14c0aa03)
Here's the coolest thing Stout has listed for next week:
10 years ago I'd be drooling on that. Here's the auction:
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/very-rare-lionel-prewar-electric-annunciator-bell-904-c-8fe46ae9f5 (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/very-rare-lionel-prewar-electric-annunciator-bell-904-c-8fe46ae9f5)
That says something. This auction has wonderful mint boxed postwar, blue comet sets and nice IVES transition stuff along with a host of nice boxed plots and I'm looking at half a 69 bell signal in the box.
Post by: Terry on January 12, 2021, 05:58:51 PM
1935 Lionel 35th anniversary desk set. I've seen these before with a plane rather than the two pens. Neat. See it here. (https://connect.invaluable.com/stout/auction-lot/unusual-lionel-prewar-executive-pen-and-paper-cli_B234CC996E)
Here's a 1920s era Lionel Perpetual Clock:
This might be a 1920 20th anniversary item. See it here. (https://connect.invaluable.com/stout/auction-lot/lionel-corporation-prewar-perpetual-desk-calendar_53B4DA1A2A)
Post by: Terry on February 26, 2021, 09:31:51 PM
A Lionel 39 set from the early 1920s.
It's really clean which must be driving the bidding as the set is now up to $1225.
I don't collect boxes, but I don't think those are the right trains for the box. That box is from 1920-23. In those years, the set would have had one dump car and one 117 caboose
The loco has a pedestal headlight which dates to 1918 and before.
The cars have black ends, and crinkle couplers. The cars are from 1916 and before.
Still a neat set, but for that price the bottoms of the cars should be yellow.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-BOXED-PREWAR-FREIGHT-TRAIN-SET-39-STANDARD-GAUGE-3-RAIL-ELECTRIC-38-600/114688182635 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-BOXED-PREWAR-FREIGHT-TRAIN-SET-39-STANDARD-GAUGE-3-RAIL-ELECTRIC-38-600/114688182635)
Post by: starfire700 on February 27, 2021, 11:06:00 AM
Post by: Terry on March 02, 2021, 04:27:36 PM
A few days left to go and only $40. Might be a steal.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-Postwar-6257-50-Caboose-Reverse-Lettering-Variation-w-Box-Rare-Nice/224367031083?hash=item343d51332b:g:M3EAAOSwdPxgOWW1 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-Postwar-6257-50-Caboose-Reverse-Lettering-Variation-w-Box-Rare-Nice/224367031083?hash=item343d51332b:g:M3EAAOSwdPxgOWW1)
I looked in the most recent Greenberg postwar book and this is listed with no bump in price. Might be common, but I never noticed.
Post by: Terry on March 07, 2021, 12:09:37 PM
A Lionel 1910 11 flat car.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-MFG-CO-11-FLAT-CAR-PREWAR-STANDARD-GAUGE-/203289375263?nma=true&si=F6bBASIzSP6NBg6O9lsW4Hruoq8%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-MFG-CO-11-FLAT-CAR-PREWAR-STANDARD-GAUGE-/203289375263?nma=true&si=F6bBASIzSP6NBg6O9lsW4Hruoq8%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557)
The car has red primer and straight couplers. It looks like the outside has been over-painted in brown. It certainly has the wrong trucks on it.
It sold for $260 which shows that there are at least 3 people looking deeply on eBay. (I didn't bid because I don't buy repaints.)
Here's a bottom picture:
Post by: pjdog350 on March 07, 2021, 12:23:18 PM
Post by: Terry on March 07, 2021, 02:11:08 PM
The early large freight cars - but not the flatcar - came with the trucks wrapped in paper inside the car and the buyer screwed them on. This means the car will not fit back in the box once the trucks are put on. This explains why the boxes are so hard to find.
Post by: early0electric on March 07, 2021, 09:07:36 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/114714023643?_trksid=p2471758.m4703
Post by: Terry on March 07, 2021, 11:54:59 PM
Post by: early0electric on March 08, 2021, 07:25:36 AM
Post by: Terry on March 08, 2021, 12:55:42 PM
The buyer called me when he got it and told me his neighbor when he was a kid had one, and wouldn't let him play with it. He had to take a forced distribution from his IRA so he'd decided to splurge.
This 153 set is too old to have a buyer who wanted it as a kid, but there is something going on.
Post by: early0electric on March 08, 2021, 02:17:16 PM
Post by: early0electric on March 10, 2021, 12:21:17 PM
https://www.proxibid.com/Route-32-Auctions/Lionel-Train-Toy-Auction/event-catalog/196672
Personally, I find it to be a little disappointing for the hype, but that's just me.
Post by: Terry on March 10, 2021, 01:17:43 PM
The maroon 253 loco is rare.
Here's an expensive trolley. Just a guess, but it might sell for $4-5K.
https://www.proxibid.com/Lionel-Standard-Gauge-Model-8-Trolley-Pay-As-You-Enter/lotInformation/60099496 (https://www.proxibid.com/Lionel-Standard-Gauge-Model-8-Trolley-Pay-As-You-Enter/lotInformation/60099496)
Just the one picture? When I grabbed those pictures I figured out why the larger pictures are such poor quailty. They are actually small pictures blown up. When I grab photos from other auction houses, they are HUGE. Maybe they are trying to save money on bandwidth?
There's a 203 tank with two baggage cars described as a 700E steam loco:
https://www.proxibid.com/Lionel-O-Gauge-Steam-Engine-Model-700-K/lotInformation/60099538 (https://www.proxibid.com/Lionel-O-Gauge-Steam-Engine-Model-700-K/lotInformation/60099538)
Here's the decription for the 203 tank - says it's green - with pictures of a 700K:
https://www.proxibid.com/Lionel-O-Gauge-Armored-Locomotive-Model-type-I/lotInformation/60099542 (https://www.proxibid.com/Lionel-O-Gauge-Armored-Locomotive-Model-type-I/lotInformation/60099542)
Post by: Terry on March 10, 2021, 01:20:11 PM
Post by: early0electric on March 10, 2021, 01:37:27 PM
https://connect.invaluable.com/stout/auction-catalog/Postwar-Standard-Gauge-Toy-Trains_5ELYMVKMBF/#
https://connect.invaluable.com/stout/auction-lot/lionel-standard-gauge-electric-rapid-transit-oran_D104F1D943
https://connect.invaluable.com/stout/auction-lot/lionel-standard-gauge-no-29-nyc-hrr-day-coach-wit_71C439996F
Being a collector of early period Lionel O gauge, there is nothing for me in either the Stout or the Kelley auctions that would enhance my collection. And yes, the pictures in the Kelley auction leave something to be desired.
Post by: early0electric on March 10, 2021, 02:10:04 PM
https://www.route32auctions.com/r32-auctions/april-auction-2021/
but it also is spelled Kelly on the auction site:
https://www.proxibid.com/Route-32-Auctions/Lionel-Train-Toy-Auction/event-catalog/196672?p=4&sort=0&srchloc=true#cnTb
You'd think they would proofread and show some respect.
Post by: Terry on March 10, 2021, 02:23:44 PM
And with Stout, he's a known entity so we can trust the train is as described or he'll make good on it. Not that I ever had a problem, I'm just saying he knows what he's doing and as a member of the train community his reputation is important.
Post by: Terry on March 10, 2021, 02:46:52 PM
Here's a Lionel 18/19/190 set from about 1911/12 with pinhole steps and maroon primer on two cars. The observation doesn't have the pinhole steps or primer, but does have the early railing with hearts.
https://connect.invaluable.com/stout/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-standard-gauge-18-19-and-190-passen_EE0415281D (https://connect.invaluable.com/stout/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-standard-gauge-18-19-and-190-passen_EE0415281D)
Post by: Terry on March 13, 2021, 06:00:57 PM
Some kind of box spacer. . . Both ends are open, one has fingers to hold something in place. Tape from late 1930s.
Here's the eBay auction:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Lionel-Insert-or-Partial-Box-Possibly-Pre-war/274712825160 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Lionel-Insert-or-Partial-Box-Possibly-Pre-war/274712825160)
Post by: Terry on March 15, 2021, 10:46:38 PM
1913 era 33 with block lettering and two ribbed cars in a 1920s Corporation box. The 33 with block lettering is difficult to find. The Pullman is common. The observation car has the wrong roof on it - it's a later roof on the early car - which is a collector upgrading his roof without paying close attention. The observation has perforated steps, green doors and NO door handles. I don't have that car.
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/99640963_boxed-lionel-no-33-ribbed-passenger-car-set?from=alert&utm_source=SavedAlert&utm_campaign=SearchAlert_20200423_A&utm_medium=email&utm_content=item (https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/99640963_boxed-lionel-no-33-ribbed-passenger-car-set?from=alert&utm_source=SavedAlert&utm_campaign=SearchAlert_20200423_A&utm_medium=email&utm_content=item)
Post by: early0electric on March 16, 2021, 09:47:14 PM
Here's another auction like the 96 Outfit that seems a bit out of hand to me. Or am I misjudging the value of my trains?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-DARK-GREEN-152-LOCOMOTIVE-IN-ORIGINAL-BOX-SUPERB-ORIGINAL-EXAMPLE/114721756206?hash=item1ab5f3142e:g:Jm0AAOSwLG5gSVCS
Post by: Terry on March 16, 2021, 10:36:41 PM
But $900 is a lot of money. Above $400 it's just two bidders. There's 4 bidders between 3 and 4 hundred.
Here's something you might have missed. . .
We've laughed at the prices of three auctions in the last few weeks. The 96 o gauge set, the 38 with two dump cars in the wrong box, and this 152. All three were listed by the same seller. I checked the bidders and they are different.
Post by: starfire700 on March 17, 2021, 04:21:09 AM
I started thinning out my paper items, as most just sit in a file and easy to forget what I have.
Post by: early0electric on March 17, 2021, 11:56:54 AM
Post by: early0electric on March 17, 2021, 12:44:25 PM
Post by: Terry on March 17, 2021, 04:19:12 PM
Post by: early0electric on March 18, 2021, 09:35:54 AM
Post by: Terry on March 21, 2021, 02:44:03 AM
Small cardboard tube that seems to have come with a 258 or 262 set from the 1931-33 period.
Here's the full shot from the auction:
I'm guessing about the sets based on the sellers other listings.
Any idea what the tube is for? It says Lionel on the other side.
Here's the listing:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-Vintage-Accessories-Lot-RR-Crossings-Switches-Boxed-Bumpers-Parts-AE/333923370199?hash=item4dbf6244d7:g:1GMAAOSwp~RgUUsy (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-Vintage-Accessories-Lot-RR-Crossings-Switches-Boxed-Bumpers-Parts-AE/333923370199?hash=item4dbf6244d7:g:1GMAAOSwp~RgUUsy)
Post by: murph-7 on March 21, 2021, 08:48:10 AM
Post by: early0electric on March 21, 2021, 08:04:57 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-DARK-GREEN-152-LOCOMOTIVE-IN-ORIGINAL-BOX-SUPERB-ORIGINAL-EXAMPLE/114721756206?hash=item1ab5f3142e:g:Jm0AAOSwLG5gSVCS
Post by: murph-7 on March 22, 2021, 04:19:02 PM
Post by: Terry on April 02, 2021, 11:20:31 PM
Appears to be a black 385E loco.
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/lionel-standard-gauge-nine-piece-train-set-2568-c-79e4c6fbc9 (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/lionel-standard-gauge-nine-piece-train-set-2568-c-79e4c6fbc9)
That's a PA auction house.
Post by: starfire700 on April 03, 2021, 05:05:42 AM
Terrible description for this lot, obviously not a 392E, and does not show the whole lot. Noel Barrett used to be associated with Pook and Pook, and would think he would have provided better guidance.
Post by: Brian Miller on April 03, 2021, 07:19:17 AM
Post by: Terry on April 03, 2021, 01:33:08 PM
I have a 392E in black that looks like that except it's longer. I also have a black 400E with copper and brass trim.
Larry or one of the members in PA might live close enough to drive over and look at it.
Speaking of crap auction houses, I asked the Route 32 people selling this 8 trolley for more pictures since they only had one in the listing.
Here's the photo in the listing:
Here's the new photos:
I just asked for additional photos. I guess I got what I asked for.
Post by: early0electric on April 03, 2021, 10:22:28 PM
Post by: Terry on April 11, 2021, 07:19:14 PM
I saw this set on eBay a few days ago and set up a snipe. Green 800 boxcar with some common stuff.
I assume I wasn't the only person who saw it.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274738252054 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/274738252054)
Post by: starfire700 on April 12, 2021, 04:08:09 AM
Post by: early0electric on April 12, 2021, 07:57:42 AM
I saw it too. It's a piece I've been looking for for quite a while. The one I have is over painted silver and I think it's posted here somewhere. Anyway, I bid and came in second. If you won it and and are interested in selling it, let me know.
Mike
Post by: Terry on April 12, 2021, 12:40:29 PM
Here's a new listing with something I want so bad you can call it a need. I'm not going to buy this one because it's overpriced, and I'm feeling broke with taxes being due.
Midnight blue 33 set. The cars look to have been scrubbed or compounded, but the loco bothers me. The paint is orange peeling. That is not something you see often with Lionel trains.
A little flaking paint, but the texture just looks off. The same seller also has a black 33 from the same era that looks like it has been relettered over the original lettering with dry transfers:
Here's the blue set:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-Midnight-Blue-DSS-33-0-4-0-Montgomery-Ward-Standard-Scale-Set/333956776951?hash=item4dc16003f7:g:w4sAAOSwfY1gdHh7 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-Midnight-Blue-DSS-33-0-4-0-Montgomery-Ward-Standard-Scale-Set/333956776951?hash=item4dc16003f7:g:w4sAAOSwfY1gdHh7)
Here's the relettered 33
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-Black-33-Standard-Gauge-Engine/333955683596?hash=item4dc14f550c:g:c4QAAOSwEU9gczSK (https://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-Black-33-Standard-Gauge-Engine/333955683596?hash=item4dc14f550c:g:c4QAAOSwEU9gczSK)
Post by: early0electric on April 12, 2021, 01:13:08 PM
Post by: Terry on April 13, 2021, 12:26:41 PM
Post by: early0electric on April 13, 2021, 01:23:01 PM
That looks pretty decent and a good price, also.
Mike
Post by: Terry on April 13, 2021, 07:58:43 PM
Post by: Terry on April 19, 2021, 01:07:30 PM
I've never seen that hopper car.
My dad and I had the black 816 with nickel plates. The black 816 has dish frames and later trucks/couplers.
EVERY original car I've seen that had late colors and nickel plates has the dished frame and late style trucks.
Either that car is really special, or it's junk.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/144013299183?ViewItem=&item=144013299183 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/144013299183?ViewItem=&item=144013299183)
Post by: pjdog350 on April 19, 2021, 02:19:03 PM
Post by: starfire700 on April 20, 2021, 05:15:59 AM
Post by: starfire700 on April 20, 2021, 05:23:12 AM
Post by: Terry on April 20, 2021, 01:44:14 PM
Paul bought the set with the 2816 so we can find out what it is. He won't use the forum because I won't let him post pictures bigger than 180KB each, but I'll get some pictures when he gets it.
Post by: Terry on May 01, 2021, 11:10:31 AM
Here's something you don't see but twice a year:
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/lionel-electric-rapid-transit-gondola-train-car-126-c-8a14715bbb (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/lionel-electric-rapid-transit-gondola-train-car-126-c-8a14715bbb)
Post by: starfire700 on May 02, 2021, 05:11:04 AM
Assembly with so many screws is too labor-intensive, even for a 1-off prototype.
Link-pin couplers would relate to pre 1910, pre 1906 if made by Lionel and the coupling pockets look smaller than those that Lionel used on 2-7/8" equipment.
Also why would factory R&D hand-make a car-body with wooden floor when Lionel already had the #12 carbody since 1906.
Trucks are single hollow large eyelet, so are later than this car would have been made by Lionel R&D.
It still is a great looking early car, but does not justify the price of an nearly factory prototype.
Post by: starfire700 on May 02, 2021, 05:21:53 AM
Lionel did not have a freight car truck until 1906, and that was the first 4-rivet then 3-rivet truck made through 1912. So, it could have sat in the archives until someone decided to take it home, where it eventually got single-rivet trucks installed, some time between 1912 and 1920 or so.
If trains could only talk and tell us their history.
Post by: Terry on May 02, 2021, 01:17:15 PM
Post by: Terry on May 13, 2021, 05:11:38 PM
Looks like copies of Lionel 600 car frames and maybe roofs with some kind of odd body and a motor in one that was made by ETS in Czech republic.
Here's eBay listing:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174765599239?hash=item28b0d76a07:g:KjEAAOSwBKFgmtEG (https://www.ebay.com/itm/174765599239?hash=item28b0d76a07:g:KjEAAOSwBKFgmtEG)
Post by: early0electric on May 13, 2021, 05:23:10 PM
Post by: starfire700 on May 14, 2021, 05:22:52 AM
Post by: Terry on May 14, 2021, 05:05:49 PM
Jim - No I haven't. I was trying to get him to bring it over last weekend so I could video it running. I'll see him in the morning and get him to send me a few pics.
Post by: Terry on May 18, 2021, 01:30:25 AM
It has a siren in it and goes through a sequence. I'll get him to bring it over and do a video of it sometime in the future. It was painted an olive green color over the brass/bronze , but most has flaked away.
Post by: starfire700 on May 18, 2021, 03:57:51 AM
Post by: early0electric on May 20, 2021, 01:46:47 PM
Post by: early0electric on May 22, 2021, 11:20:06 AM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/164878327438?hash=item2663839e8e:g:~TEAAOSwE4NgqJET
Post by: Terry on May 22, 2021, 01:34:27 PM
Here's a few interesting items:
1914 Lionel Type Y Motor in the box.
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/103996331_lionel-manufacturing-type-y-motor (https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/103996331_lionel-manufacturing-type-y-motor)
And a blue American Flyer 4681 5 piper:
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/103996211_american-flyer-4681-loco (https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/103996211_american-flyer-4681-loco)
I have a chocolate brown 5 piper loco downstairs, but it has a black tender. Might be unique? Frank Petruzo had a green AF standard tender, but as far as I know no green loco has been found.
That auction also has some outrageously rare early Tootsietoys, and some nice boxed TT sets.
Post by: starfire700 on May 24, 2021, 04:28:39 AM
Post by: Terry on May 24, 2021, 01:56:05 PM
Plus you can't miss it if you know what you're looking at. It's like a turd in a sandbox.
Post by: Terry on June 03, 2021, 11:36:56 PM
1935 Lionel 35th anniversary paperweight paper clip holder. Usually these are missing the planes.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/254999185601 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/254999185601)
Post by: Terry on June 04, 2021, 03:37:32 PM
Upside down 600 pullman in brown!
Looks like the frame and motor from the 150 is under the Marx Commodore Vandy body on the right.
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/103926094_lot-of-9-2-engines-and-7-misc-cars (https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/103926094_lot-of-9-2-engines-and-7-misc-cars)
If you're bidding. everything other than the lionel 600 cars and the motor is worth about $60. Add another $35 if the diecast 3/16" O tender has sound in it.
Post by: early0electric on June 04, 2021, 08:27:24 PM
Post by: CNJRR on June 07, 2021, 04:00:24 PM
Here's something interesting:
1935 Lionel 35th anniversary paperweight paper clip holder. Usually these are missing the planes.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/254999185601 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/254999185601)
I never saw one of those.
Bids over $400 right now, I will never own one. :)
Post by: early0electric on June 10, 2021, 03:00:07 PM
https://ambrosebauer.com/lotdetail.php?auction=363&lot=175
Post by: Terry on June 10, 2021, 08:52:08 PM
First shows a european large gauge live steam loco with tender and a pullman:
The second looks like a Lionel display from the early teens. The round cab 42 with black lettering and the two large posters with the 1913 Lionel catalog artwork provide a good clue about the date.
Here's a link to the auction:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/114845573165
Post by: starfire700 on June 11, 2021, 01:47:10 PM
Post by: early0electric on June 11, 2021, 05:27:43 PM
Post by: starfire700 on June 12, 2021, 11:14:32 AM
Post by: starfire700 on June 12, 2021, 12:03:35 PM
Post by: Terry on June 12, 2021, 05:09:55 PM
The fact that your bridge is built to use Lionel track at a time when only Lionel was making standard track is important. (I don't know the length of a section of IVES 1 gauge track. Is that the same or different?)
Speaking of bridges - I put the later standard bridges - 101? - just the center sections - sunk into the layout at the river. Everything except the 400E goes through them. The 400E steamchest brushes a green pillar, and then deflects into the other side and gets wedged. I added 1/4" stripes of wood between the sides and the base to get it to clear.
Post by: starfire700 on June 12, 2021, 06:58:00 PM
Post by: early0electric on June 12, 2021, 08:55:16 PM
Post by: Terry on June 12, 2021, 09:40:28 PM
First the bridges and the 42 loco.
The 42 loco has black painted center hubs and block New York Central lettering. The lettering is very early, and was only done for a short time. The black hubs might mean the loco was "dressed up" for the display.
The smaller bridge does not look to be the same as Jim's.
Check out the combine on the bridge. . . that 7 train set has the combine between the Pullman and the observation. That means they probably hired one of the ancestors of a Liveauctioneer's worker. Seriously it may give a clue to the man setting up the display. If this man grew up in New York City, he might not be familiar with passenger trains. At that time the regional trains were coming into the city underground. Just judging by the man's hairline he is in his early to mid 20s. He might have never seen a passenger set.
That bother's me. I'm thinking these are is is a photo of a Lionel trade display. Maybe at the toy fair?
Here's the back table:
You can supersize that by clicking on the hash and square in the right corner of the image.
The second table appears to be the smaller Lionel sets. I played with the brightness and contrast and can see a 33 with a 35 Pullman right behind the man's left elbow. The forward loop looks to have a 36 or 182 observation. - short platform so I bet 36. Behind that is probably the 182.
I bet those boxes in the back are full of trolleys!
One of us is going to have to buy this negative and have large prints made we can see better.
Post by: Terry on June 12, 2021, 09:45:24 PM
Looks like a floor toy. Maybe it has a guide rail arrangement? Or maybe it's on a stick so it's straight for display?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/114845286178 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/114845286178)
Post by: early0electric on June 12, 2021, 10:01:24 PM
Post by: early0electric on June 12, 2021, 11:25:07 PM
Post by: Terry on June 13, 2021, 01:05:43 AM
Post by: starfire700 on June 14, 2021, 05:07:35 AM
The Military floor train is very cool, definitely influenced by the First World War.
The pacifists would scream if you tried to make such a toy for the "kiddies" these days, how things have changed.
Post by: early0electric on June 20, 2021, 07:12:58 PM
Post by: Terry on June 20, 2021, 10:10:52 PM
Maybe we'll see an article or something.
Post by: starfire700 on June 21, 2021, 10:57:48 AM
Post by: pjdog350 on June 21, 2021, 06:22:22 PM
Post by: starfire700 on June 23, 2021, 04:35:49 AM
Post by: pjdog350 on June 23, 2021, 07:41:46 AM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/294238669038?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055359.m1431.l2649
Post by: starfire700 on June 24, 2021, 04:44:45 AM
Post by: early0electric on July 01, 2021, 10:40:40 AM
Post by: Terry on July 02, 2021, 02:10:07 AM
Here's something interesting. 1906/07 Lionel thin rim 5 loco with DUMMY headlight and split frame. The newest Greenberg says only 2 of these are known, but this is the second one I've seen for sale in the past 2 months.
The one in the Greenberg book and the one I saw last month both have holes in the boiler top behind the light hood. This one does not. The hole is for the wire so I was skeptical of the orginality of the last one.
Here's the auction:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/284355307613 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/284355307613)
Post by: early0electric on July 02, 2021, 08:20:03 AM
Post by: starfire700 on July 02, 2021, 11:35:31 AM
Post by: Terry on July 02, 2021, 12:08:35 PM
Post by: early0electric on July 02, 2021, 01:21:23 PM
Post by: Terry on July 02, 2021, 04:38:59 PM
Looks like they had a raised level that was removed between this one and the other. Them's the trains we're looking for!
Post by: early0electric on July 02, 2021, 05:10:20 PM
Post by: Terry on July 02, 2021, 06:49:54 PM
The White Street book might put a name to him.
Post by: Terry on July 02, 2021, 10:43:05 PM
Corona and Modelo are beers made by the Cervecería Modelo company named on the top of the loco. The first American beer train and it turns out to be Mexican.
Here's the auction:
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/prewar-lionel-set-402-engine-419-418-490-passenge-72-c-3bf44e4bba (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/prewar-lionel-set-402-engine-419-418-490-passenge-72-c-3bf44e4bba)
Post by: starfire700 on July 04, 2021, 04:57:30 AM
I also noted that another featured auction on this page has a Lionel O gauge set with green 2640 type cars and includes 2 of the flat black Madison Hardware freights.
I just published a video on Madison Wartime production, for those interested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UVdMi9tkPY
Post by: starfire700 on July 04, 2021, 05:00:30 AM
Post by: early0electric on July 04, 2021, 07:45:19 AM
Post by: Terry on July 04, 2021, 03:01:21 PM
Post by: starfire700 on July 05, 2021, 05:16:20 AM
I have been collecting the Madison items for a while. I found my first car, a wood-frame floodlight car at York in a junk box in the late 1970's. I thought it was home-made, bought it for the light. Luckily I kept the frame, and years later when I discovered what it was, I re-assembled it. I have mostly floodlights and flatcars, the dump, crane and tank are harder, plus the few odd-balls like the 2717 gondola. I have never seen a caboose. Also, still not sure why they painted litho bodies flat black, unless it was to keep the mood drab due to the war.
I was lucky to have been to Madison twice in the 1980's, had a good time with Lou or Carl, do not remember which one. We bought him a coffee then played... "I bet you don't have this part". I think they won every round, and I came back with some tuff parts like a pilot for an 00 Hudson and a Blue Streak vestibule.
Post by: Terry on July 05, 2021, 12:26:17 PM
Post by: starfire700 on July 06, 2021, 05:00:00 AM
Post by: Terry on July 06, 2021, 02:34:01 PM
Post by: starfire700 on July 07, 2021, 08:44:24 AM
Since the litho process has colors layered one at a time, I thought there should be a faint image of the details visible, but not so. Therefore, all I have to go on is visible color where there are scratches in the black. I could not detect any scratches or blems under the black. The tank car has the most wear and dirt, so makes that one more-difficult.
Tank car....I see evidence of red where diamond would be so it is a late Sunoco with diamond to the right.
Boxcar......maroon under black at roof edges, so a late Baby Ruth
2677 Gondola.... evidence of dark orange at edges
2717 gondola.....Orange/brown at edges
So all that proves is that all these cars were litho to start and the paint is thick-enough to hide any images underneath.
Also proves that a Lionel dealer could do a better job cleaning cars to prep for painting, than Ives did. No flaking of black is visible on the slick litho finish.
Post by: Terry on July 07, 2021, 11:48:20 AM
I sold all mine so I can't look at them.
We'll leave my statement as an unproved assumption then.
Post by: Terry on July 09, 2021, 07:36:02 PM
I bet you could date this photo based on the 2 7/8ths gondola being metal and a dummy. 1903 to 1905. Probably 1904-05 because of the color.
The Clark Hillclimber Car is nice. There's some cool toys in the picture.
Here's the auction:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/114879683569 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/114879683569)
Post by: early0electric on July 09, 2021, 08:11:56 PM
Post by: early0electric on July 09, 2021, 08:20:15 PM
https://www.apartments.com/24-murray-st-new-york-ny/df9nt9k/
Post by: Terry on July 09, 2021, 10:27:00 PM
Post by: Terry on July 13, 2021, 01:28:15 PM
Two lots with Madison Hardware wartime cars:
Boxcar and wood flat:
https://connect.invaluable.com/stout/auction-lot/mixed-group-of-lionel-prewar-o-gauge-trains-inclu_86A482D930 (https://connect.invaluable.com/stout/auction-lot/mixed-group-of-lionel-prewar-o-gauge-trains-inclu_86A482D930)
Boxcar and wood flat with 820 type searchlight:
https://connect.invaluable.com/stout/auction-lot/mixed-group-of-lionel-prewar-and-o-gauge-and-repr_04A4B5DAB1 (https://connect.invaluable.com/stout/auction-lot/mixed-group-of-lionel-prewar-and-o-gauge-and-repr_04A4B5DAB1)
I never had a wood flatcar or wood searchlight.
Post by: starfire700 on July 13, 2021, 05:24:14 PM
Post by: Terry on July 16, 2021, 07:15:31 PM
107 direct current reducer. I have one of these, but not the box.
That should be expensive, but I doubt many collectors care. In fact, I wouldn't have bought mine except it came with trains I wanted.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/255054806415 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/255054806415)
Post by: starfire700 on July 17, 2021, 04:16:02 AM
Post by: Terry on July 19, 2021, 12:12:44 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/255059204811 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/255059204811)
Post by: early0electric on July 19, 2021, 02:16:32 PM
Post by: Terry on July 19, 2021, 03:49:56 PM
Maybe it's the sweat in my eyes?
Post by: early0electric on July 19, 2021, 04:39:55 PM
Post by: Terry on July 19, 2021, 05:05:05 PM
Post by: Terry on August 22, 2021, 05:03:57 PM
The roofs are soldeired onto the cars under the paint and no lettering worries me. Plus I have a nice set.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/165030684751
Post by: early0electric on August 22, 2021, 09:43:34 PM
Post by: early0electric on August 25, 2021, 03:19:14 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/154583956681?hash=item23fdebfcc9:g:XNwAAOSw9X5hJoJ7
Post by: starfire700 on August 26, 2021, 04:00:37 AM
Post by: Terry on September 01, 2021, 08:07:50 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/165033403982
Post by: early0electric on September 01, 2021, 08:40:16 PM
Post by: starfire700 on September 02, 2021, 04:48:50 AM
I have had a hard time lately, trying to sell an original for half that price.
Post by: starfire700 on September 02, 2021, 04:52:12 AM
Post by: Terry on September 02, 2021, 12:55:22 PM
Been slow on eBay lately.
I did buy the dog a holloween costume on eBay. I only think of ebay as a place for trains, but they have all kinds of other stuff on there too.
Post by: Terry on September 10, 2021, 09:40:47 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/294372195283 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/294372195283)
I bought a 260e on ebay years ago with an apple green frame. I sent it back after examining it.
Post by: Terry on September 10, 2021, 10:08:28 PM
It's actually worse than it looks because the scratches are so old the bare metal has darkened.
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-156-4-4-4-dark-green-new-york-centr-955-c-bcd4880b1e (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-156-4-4-4-dark-green-new-york-centr-955-c-bcd4880b1e)
I don't have a 156 with pedestal light and late couplers. I have a 156X with ped. light and riveted couplers, and a 12 wheeler pedestal light, riveted couplers and gold painted vents. But I have enopugh dark green locos so I won't be bidding.
Here's a similar but more beat up 156 with pedestal light and late couplers in a set:
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/early-lionel-prewar-dark-green-156-nyc-locomotive-1123-c-eac4824867
Now for something to drool over:
Boxed number 2 trolley set for Butler Brothers.
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/boxed-lionel-prewar-standard-gauge-outfit-f1680-f-1098-c-202407db31 (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/boxed-lionel-prewar-standard-gauge-outfit-f1680-f-1098-c-202407db31)
And something unusual, but much cheaper:
That's a 254E with the E on the door and a 3-position e-unit mounted sideways. I doubt it came in that box.
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-254-green-electric-locomotive-with-1114-c-4224b29afb (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-254-green-electric-locomotive-with-1114-c-4224b29afb)
Post by: Terry on October 08, 2021, 12:19:49 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/353713952219 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/353713952219)
Post by: Terry on October 17, 2021, 05:44:30 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/224651365873 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/224651365873)
Post by: early0electric on October 19, 2021, 02:44:48 PM
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/grp-inc-lionel-hafner-o-gauge-locos-4442-c-59d485083f
Post by: Terry on October 19, 2021, 04:13:57 PM
That's a gray 4. Very hard to find. A rare export version of the gray 4 is known with Made in USA on frame and 254 stamped on the ends over the doors. Might be one of them, but you can't tell from the photos.
Post by: early0electric on November 02, 2021, 11:22:50 AM
Post by: Terry on November 03, 2021, 11:44:17 AM
How about the 38 lettered PENN RR:
Here's the auction:
https://connect.invaluable.com/stout/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-std-ga-scarce-38-dark-olive-green-l_C734025913 (https://connect.invaluable.com/stout/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-std-ga-scarce-38-dark-olive-green-l_C734025913)
Is that the same stamp the 800 boxcars get? Just by looking at the loco it seems to be from about 1912-16 era. I think the wire hand reverse lever means earlier like 1912-13, but otherwise there aren't enough changes between 1912 and 1916 to date things.
Speaking of auctions, Brad sent me a copy of the 1913 showroom layout photo. He's selling photos as posters:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/115073161419 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/115073161419)
Post by: early0electric on November 03, 2021, 04:14:09 PM
Post by: Terry on November 03, 2021, 09:40:31 PM
There is also a gunmetal 2666T tender - the plastic one.
I had two or three different people ask me if I'd ever heard of a gray plastic tender at the recent TCA convention. The loco is messed up - brass screws on the rods? But if the tender is seen as being real, it might bring a boatload of cash.
Post by: early0electric on November 04, 2021, 12:10:04 PM
https://connect.invaluable.com/stout/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-o-ga-scarce-156-gray-rubber-stamped_1F54BF6A14
Post by: Terry on November 04, 2021, 01:12:12 PM
A year ago I would have been after it. Today I'd rather have the standard gauge. Unfortunately, I don't have unlimited money.
Good luck bidding. That will be a great addition to your collection.
Here's a photo so it's preserved:
From the photos it's certainly dipped.
Post by: early0electric on November 04, 2021, 03:03:52 PM
Post by: early0electric on November 06, 2021, 02:58:09 PM
Post by: Terry on November 06, 2021, 04:07:57 PM
If it's not a regular house and it's poorly listed there MIGHT be a deal. I've missed items that were seen by others and got great deals on rarities no one else saw.
With the stuff I'm into I tend to place a higher premium on some variations than regular collectors. So with those items I try to keep my mouth shut.
Here's something for you Mike:
I wired up the lights and all visible bulbs are vintage and correct. The two on the station are lightly interior frosted and the filaments just glow. Might be from about 1920? The tall street lights are probably from the early '20s.
Post by: early0electric on November 07, 2021, 02:04:04 PM
Post by: early0electric on November 20, 2021, 01:07:28 PM
Post by: Terry on November 20, 2021, 03:03:30 PM
Maybe I could get one or two of the 3 items I wanted.
It made no difference.
The two things I really wanted were the two square cabs with ovals.
The 1910 went for $5900 plus the vig:
https://connect.invaluable.com/stout/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-std-ga-1910-dark-olive-green-nyc-0-_C264F01B44 (https://connect.invaluable.com/stout/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-std-ga-1910-dark-olive-green-nyc-0-_C264F01B44)
The 1911 went for $2200+ which was one bid over my 21, but I don't know how far the other bidder would have went, and after missing the 1910, I decided to go all in on the Penn 38:
https://connect.invaluable.com/stout/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-std-ga-1911-dark-olive-green-electr_88B4773BF1 (https://connect.invaluable.com/stout/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-std-ga-1911-dark-olive-green-electr_88B4773BF1)
I wanted those because I have the matching oddball 1912.
I was online and bidding for the Penn 38. I threw in the towell and two other bidders took it up to $4K + the premium.
https://connect.invaluable.com/stout/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-std-ga-scarce-38-dark-olive-green-l_C734025913
(https://connect.invaluable.com/stout/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-std-ga-scarce-38-dark-olive-green-l_C734025913)
The dog should be ok, and whatever money I don't spend now, I can spend later.
Post by: Terry on December 03, 2021, 08:37:04 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/234317596948 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/234317596948)
At $75 it's a nice little consolation price for getting shut out last month.
Post by: early0electric on December 04, 2021, 10:48:59 AM
Post by: Terry on December 04, 2021, 12:02:40 PM
Post by: early0electric on December 04, 2021, 04:15:49 PM
Post by: Terry on December 05, 2021, 11:05:40 AM
I bought a 802 stock car from the same seller and asked him about a brown 901 gondola, but he never replied. The stock car has the Lionel Lines stamp on the end which I don't have, and the gondola might have no lettering on it. Might be repainted. I'm not paying $50 to find out.
I think the 901 has been cleaned so the lettering is gone. Notice that the 3 sides except the end with the lionel stamp are dull.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/234317629400 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/234317629400)
Post by: Terry on December 05, 2021, 11:40:52 PM
Here's a facsinating auction:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/224723794389
Read the description after you look at the pictures for more fun.
Post by: starfire700 on December 06, 2021, 10:56:49 AM
Post by: Terry on December 06, 2021, 11:18:48 AM
That's what I find amusing.
Post by: early0electric on December 15, 2021, 02:49:13 PM
Post by: Terry on December 15, 2021, 03:10:42 PM
It's like throwing out $35, but I don't buy lottery tickets so this is my gambling.
Post by: Terry on December 31, 2021, 06:59:22 PM
Blue 248.
Here's the auction. (https://www.ebay.com/itm/304281082028?hash=item46d890d8ac:g:tQwAAOSwYLRhy80N)
I bet that was repainted a long time ago. It's really interesting TO ME that the seller is quoting an article I wrote 23 years ago:
Lionel 248 locos (https://train99.com/prewar-0-gauge/lionel-prewar-0-gauge-248-electic-locomotive-1927-32/)
I'm famus!
Post by: starfire700 on January 01, 2022, 04:56:39 AM
Post by: Terry on January 07, 2022, 07:28:37 PM
First is a green 6014 unlettered boxcar:
I think that's an MPC era shell so it might not be something special. Check the rows of rivets. There's a recent Airex car in the listing with the same rivet pattern.
Here's the auction:
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/120717802_lionel-postwar-8-eight-assorted-box-cars (https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/120717802_lionel-postwar-8-eight-assorted-box-cars)
Here's the gem:
If the brown Baby Ruth is real, it's a fantastic car. I had a brown plastic culvert gondola a few years ago that looked like that car.
Here's the auction:
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/120717800_lionel-postwar-eight-8-assorted-box-cars
I saw nothing else interesting on my weekly trip through the internet. It's been sparse out there.
Post by: starfire700 on January 08, 2022, 04:50:26 AM
Not sure how to test for this, but something to consider. If the lot goes cheap, it doesn't matter.
Post by: Terry on January 08, 2022, 11:19:13 AM
I also had a 6342 culvert gondola that was unpainted brown plastic. It was real.
The baby ruth car seems to be unpainted brown plastic. Collectors call these weird cars "Boy's Train Cars," but they are probably just samples or test shots.
Post by: starfire700 on January 09, 2022, 04:26:59 AM
Lionel called set 1587S the "Train set for Girls" in the 1957 catalog, sub-titled "in fashion-right colors". Then they felt obligated to show a 2037 freight of regular-production cars on the same pages and titled it "for boys.....a man-sized freight set". Someone must have gotten fired for this blunder.
In 1958 it was titled "Lady Lionel"....still in fashion-right colors. By 1959 it disappeared and was replaced with the General and Military-Space trains.
I don't think Lionel ever called it "the Girl's Train" same with the "Boy's Train" that never made it past prototype status, just names coined by collectors.
Post by: early0electric on January 11, 2022, 12:12:56 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/115171169049?hash=item1ad0bc9319:g:-z8AAOSwwAthha6X
Post by: Terry on January 11, 2022, 01:17:02 PM
Post by: early0electric on January 14, 2022, 12:49:38 PM
Post by: Brian Miller on January 31, 2022, 05:17:07 PM
Post by: Terry on February 02, 2022, 12:02:05 PM
Post by: Terry on March 11, 2022, 10:24:17 PM
Here's the listing:
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/two-lionel-prewar-o-gauge-electric-locomotives-wi-9844a1c84c (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/two-lionel-prewar-o-gauge-electric-locomotives-wi-9844a1c84c)
Here's some interesting items coming up in an April 2nd Stout auction.
Cream 408E set.
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/lionel-std-ga-cream-paint-sample-pass-set-no-409e-3c64060a93 (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/lionel-std-ga-cream-paint-sample-pass-set-no-409e-3c64060a93)
Crackle Black 400E
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-std-ga-scarce-desirable-400e-black--a3f402c8db (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-std-ga-scarce-desirable-400e-black--a3f402c8db)
There's a bunch of other nice stuff, but no early Lionel.
Here's something interesting. . . Lionel 113 station.
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-std-ga-113-illuminated-terra-cotta--9a2437ebaa (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-std-ga-113-illuminated-terra-cotta--9a2437ebaa)
Note the 113 station has lights beside the doors. I have a few 112 stations without lights, but not a 113. I guess my dad and I overlooked them. Maybe they are quite rare? I looked on eBay last month, and didn't see any selling in the past 90 days. Looking again tonight one sold for $577 in early March.
As the big collections are sold off we fight over the rarities, but they sell the common trains too. I wonder who is buying all the common trains? Thoughts?
Post by: Terry on March 25, 2022, 10:40:25 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/403563313198 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/403563313198)
Post by: starfire700 on March 27, 2022, 04:15:31 AM
Post by: Terry on March 27, 2022, 02:38:58 PM
Here's an early Lionel 700 loco. Later one without gold vents. What's the screw on wheel hub for?
The upper right wheel. I've not seen that before.
Here's the ebay listing:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/203883727222 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/203883727222)
Post by: starfire700 on March 28, 2022, 04:46:47 AM
Post by: early0electric on March 28, 2022, 09:10:52 PM
Post by: Terry on April 01, 2022, 03:38:18 AM
Post by: starfire700 on April 02, 2022, 04:52:28 AM
Post by: early0electric on April 02, 2022, 07:20:11 AM
Post by: early0electric on April 02, 2022, 10:03:19 PM
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/vintage-boxed-lionel-trains-and-accessories-777-c-1bb4beca56
This first one has a nice OUTFIT 160 in brown with a good looking MFG box. The trains look awful nice. I can't tell if they've been repainted. The 150 loco has solid drive wheels so they have no doubt been replaced. The other is a OUTFIT 92 box but it's stuffed with 2-rail mechanical track. The trains for this box are included in the other auction.
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/vintage-toy-train-lot-776-c-c6a4459a5b
This lot has a nice 152 in Grey with brass handrails along with a 529 & 530 in Dark Green which is OUTFIT 92 so it should be in the box in the other auction instead of the track. Also in this lot is a 153, 800, 801, 802, 804, & 901 along with a LOT of other prewar trains.
These are from Jackson's International in IOWA.....30% Juice!
Post by: Terry on April 03, 2022, 07:46:20 PM
Here's something weird - 1994 test shots of the surviving tooling made in 1938 for Lionel's 00 line.
ebay auction at:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/384814464112 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/384814464112)
The same seller also has a 1923 Lionel paperweight. In the pictures he shows a 1925 anniversary paperweight.
Here's 1923 version:
1925 says "Silver Jubilee" on base.
Auction at:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/384814496637 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/384814496637)
I have a 402 loco that has been removed from the base. It was one of my first ebay purchases. It was $11, and might have been postpaid!
Post by: early0electric on April 04, 2022, 03:21:49 PM
Post by: Terry on April 05, 2022, 06:12:37 AM
This one doesn't say "Silver Jubilee" and is gold tone. Might just be the 1923 version spray painted gold.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/224878851589 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/224878851589)
Sold for between $3000 and 3500.
Post by: early0electric on April 11, 2022, 02:26:07 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/374015137596?
Post by: starfire700 on April 12, 2022, 04:37:05 AM
Post by: Terry on April 12, 2022, 10:00:03 PM
Lionel printing plate with train sets from the late teens. That's a 4-wheeled 53 loco on the top set so from 1915-20 era.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/374019062158 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/374019062158)
Neat, but $150 seems a bit steep to me. There were lots of these plates on ebay 20 years ago.
The same seller also has a printing plate for a 68 warning signal listed:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/374019054587 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/374019054587)
It's also $150.
Post by: starfire700 on April 13, 2022, 04:21:52 AM
Post by: early0electric on April 13, 2022, 11:44:11 AM
Post by: Terry on May 24, 2022, 10:48:21 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/234565979918 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/234565979918)
Post by: early0electric on May 25, 2022, 10:21:32 AM
Post by: Terry on May 30, 2022, 06:57:21 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/304508989887 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/304508989887)
Post by: Terry on May 31, 2022, 02:13:09 PM
It's not a 156X, it's just missing the pony trucks.
https://connect.invaluable.com/stout/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-156-locomotive-with-610-610-and-612_E154DA1A05 (https://connect.invaluable.com/stout/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-156-locomotive-with-610-610-and-612_E154DA1A05)
Post by: early0electric on May 31, 2022, 03:14:10 PM
I've got a set of red celluloid clerestory manufacturing cars.
Interesting enough, I also have a corporation observation with red celluloid! I missed out on the matching Pullman.
Mike
Post by: Terry on June 01, 2022, 06:10:27 PM
The standard gauge had red thru about 1915 or maybe early 1916. That explains why the O gauge cars with red are so rare.
Post by: Terry on July 09, 2022, 03:09:02 AM
Lionel 114 boxcar with the floor stamp on the end. This is a car from the mid teens with no T in CM&SP, and the 54087 number. I have the same car without the stamp on the end.
It's too beat up for me, and I don't want to pay the freight for the rest of the junk in the lot so I won't be bidding. Good luck. . .
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/132177409_six-1910-s-1920-s-lionel-standard-gauge-freight-cars (https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/132177409_six-1910-s-1920-s-lionel-standard-gauge-freight-cars)
Post by: starfire700 on July 09, 2022, 04:05:51 AM
Post by: early0electric on July 11, 2022, 07:54:54 PM
Post by: Terry on July 12, 2022, 07:19:08 PM
Here's a really neat 1917 era Lionel instruction manual:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/314070486148 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/314070486148)
I don't collect paper but that's tempting.
Here's a picture:
Post by: early0electric on July 14, 2022, 11:05:43 AM
Lionel Incorporated in July 1918. That's why there are 2 booklets.
Post by: early0electric on August 27, 2022, 09:16:57 AM
https://www.stoutauctions.com/?p=2111
(Note added by Terry - I moved this post into the auctions topic for house cleaning reasons.)
Post by: Terry on August 29, 2022, 05:42:15 PM
I still don't have a 706, and wont get this one unless it goes really cheap:
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-706-early-dark-green-electric-locom-f84435b8de (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-706-early-dark-green-electric-locom-f84435b8de)
The split frame 5 is cool, but it's not right. That's a 1910 or earlier frame on a 1913-1918 body. That frame should have a slide on headlight. I have a 1912 era 5 with a slide on headlight that I could repair that loco with.
Here's the auction one:
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-standard-gauge-early-no-5-steam-loc-ac340c3a3d (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-standard-gauge-early-no-5-steam-loc-ac340c3a3d)
Here's my thick rim slide on headlight 5 from 1912:
If I switched cabs on those two, I'd end up with a nice and more correct split frame 5 and a duplicate of this 5 in a little better condition:
I'm almost 100 percent decided to do this, but the rust on the split frame 5's frame concerns me. I bet the rust is why the cab and boiler were switched on that loco. That's a later item so I can decide whether to bid based on if I have any money left. Maybe I'll just put it on a card and then pay the card when I sell the duplicate.
This is the first time the trains come in an order that is close to my wants with the more interesting trains first. This means I can throw all my money at what I want until I'm broke.
Here's what I want:
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/rare-lionel-prewar-standard-gauge-no-14-harmony-c-c514803831 (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/rare-lionel-prewar-standard-gauge-no-14-harmony-c-c514803831)
and I want the 8 trolley:
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/large-prewar-standard-gauge-lionel-no-8-trolley-76841ff856 (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/large-prewar-standard-gauge-lionel-no-8-trolley-76841ff856)
I probably won't end up with both - I just bought a nice new cubic zirconia tooth, but hopefully I can get one and maybe the 5.
Post by: Terry on August 30, 2022, 01:11:39 AM
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/135121664_lionel-prewar-920l920r921c-large-landscape-plots-in-original-boxesliners (https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/135121664_lionel-prewar-920l920r921c-large-landscape-plots-in-original-boxesliners)
There's also a lot of early Lionel 0 gauge that includes the rare pea green 800 boxcar:
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/135121899_lionel-prewar-o-gauge-eight-8-assorted-freight-cars (https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/135121899_lionel-prewar-o-gauge-eight-8-assorted-freight-cars)
I have a nice one of those green boxcars, but you all should bid it up because if it sells cheap I might feel stupid!
There's also a lionel no 8 trolley:
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/135121573_lionel-prewar-standard-gauge-8-pay-as-you-enter-trolley (https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/135121573_lionel-prewar-standard-gauge-8-pay-as-you-enter-trolley)
Note this trolley says No. 8 and the trolley in the Stout Derby auction just says 8. The one with the No. 8 is earlier and appears to be dark green while the just 8 seems more of an olive color.
Post by: early0electric on August 30, 2022, 01:44:26 PM
Mike
Post by: Terry on September 04, 2022, 06:40:17 PM
He was on the harris site, I was on liveauctions. I figured maybe they update across the sites daily, but now more than 24 hours later the descripancy is still there.
Here's the Harris site right now:
https://bid.harristoytrainauctions.com/lots/view/5-DAZ89/lionel-prewar-standard-gauge-8-pay-as-you-enter-trolley (https://bid.harristoytrainauctions.com/lots/view/5-DAZ89/lionel-prewar-standard-gauge-8-pay-as-you-enter-trolley)
Here's Liveauctions right now:
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/135121573_lionel-prewar-standard-gauge-8-pay-as-you-enter-trolley (https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/135121573_lionel-prewar-standard-gauge-8-pay-as-you-enter-trolley)
The liveauctions page shows I bid $900. I did this to see what would happen. The liveauctions page changed to reflect my bid, the harris page did not.
A few months back, Brian Miller posted about having bids ignored. Years ago, I bid on a Bertoia auction, and thought I'd won because it sold for less than my bid. I didn't win that and was told they had never recived the bid from Liveauctions or Invaulable whoever the were using at the time.
These websites being poorly integrated might explain the problem. I try to bid direct with the auction house. Sometimes - Bertoia is an example - the house charges a lower buyer premium for direct bids.
One other point. . . I watch some items and then see the hammer price change days or weeks after the auction ends. Recently, I wacthed one item sell for $300 on Invaluble, but it now shows $900.
Interesting.
Post by: early0electric on September 05, 2022, 08:31:15 AM
Mike
Post by: Terry on September 17, 2022, 12:39:55 AM
Anyway, here's a neat 1916 Electro-Set Co. Catalog with 4 pages of Lionel trains inside it. The first page says:
Quote
We do not list the complete Lionel Line. We have chosen what we consider the best numbers and greatest values. No need of selecting from a confusing array of trains. Our wide experience has taught us what numbers make the best posible buy.
What salesmanship! None of the top or middle line Standard gauge is listed.
Here's some pictures:
I think they are all just regular cataloged Lionel Sets from the time with the -es suffix added.
Here's the book on ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/255721670200 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/255721670200)
It looks like they are using the artwork for the cars on the wrong cars. A four wheel boxcar with IC lettering would be a great find. Drawing room on a 602? The New Haven 801 caboose does exist. Maybe the others are out there waiting for us to find them.
Post by: early0electric on September 18, 2022, 01:58:47 PM
Shoot - Sorry I missed out on this. I would have bid on it. Right in my wheelhouse! Wonder what else Dr PW is selling? See my latest article in the July TCA Quarterly for Catalog Queens.
Mike
Post by: Terry on September 18, 2022, 02:55:11 PM
Post by: Terry on September 30, 2022, 02:03:58 PM
The tunnel also has interior walls which is harder to find, but doesn't add to the value.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/144745252465 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/144745252465)
Post by: early0electric on September 30, 2022, 08:43:11 PM
Post by: Terry on October 01, 2022, 11:10:19 AM
Here's three bridges with three shades of pea green:
The lower right hand bridge is the lightest color and dates from before 1927. Then it gets darker like the lower left bridge. The Hellgate in the background is lighter and dates from the early 1930s.
Post by: Terry on October 04, 2022, 11:56:49 PM
Looks like a pair of repainted passenger cars with maybe an original peacock 33. The 33 has repainted cowcatchers and might being showing a bit of primer underneath so I'd say it's probably repainted.
Butr here's the interesting thing:
The box is an IVES 700 set for Wannamaker's.
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/137563235_vintage-lionel-train-set? (https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/137563235_vintage-lionel-train-set?)
Post by: early0electric on November 21, 2022, 03:19:03 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/304709050501?hash=item46f2132085:g:zLAAAOSwqUpjeUEL&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoNlItbTnTucTYwlBKuzL21k3u4fx1r4Sk0BOyu38VIbwVWlez5qRUf7mmeLa%2BzQHtI69kowXIRi5HFPOX5DwvlYGVVrOjCaPgB3rWi99cBDxDqbk8TGuMwj0ymNTl%2FPl2xQgBM3bzoPXBB1rNBZweh3qAchA22QaLSCDaOBV%2F0IBS6qOxWGmtaGD%2Bd7k5EVDeuaWOOJgwz4fjqJf%2BaARFes%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_CJvMeTYQ
Post by: early0electric on November 28, 2022, 03:29:09 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/304718448124?hash=item46f2a285fc:g:Z50AAOSwX~Rjg9PN&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoM15RReWBQvcILyLfQFrklqpu6XyJH8wj4XmLVKVfwWeA6SZ%2FqGpvjJS7zQcZho2hsbBJDk5D9Y1XZAMzTa0VMBzkwD1SLf%2FZEP0fF5AS4dXdsHB15z1Ug7J%2BtVj76EiDDDBNn7zCZqvsqRWjNrTUXCbekAAcoEmmxUjADz4dazazTij8MIm5X%2FAEl0hTPWPNdMKWsCpO7L3vE1VK%2BkyCDM%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_jJhomYYQ
Post by: Terry on December 02, 2022, 07:29:26 PM
It's an early 802 stock car with the Lionel Lines stamp and number on one end. Looks like regular wheels. Missing the roof.
The stock cars are harder to find with the Lionel Lines stamp on the ends - mostly you find later cars with 802 on one end and the Corp. stamp on the bottom.
If this car had the roof it'd be a neat car for the shelf.
NOW CHECK OUT THE DOOR
It looks like one of the doors is painted green on one side and has the station or bridge base bubble paint on the other. I've never seen anything like that in Lionel. American Flyer and Marx used everything with no waste, but Lionel had standards. Interesting.
I'm not going to bid on this, but Mike might want it.
Here's the auction:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/144837696047 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/144837696047)
Post by: Terry on December 02, 2022, 08:02:34 PM
The Last time we saw this it sold for $850 in May of 2021.
Here's the description from 2021:
Quote
Very early possibly Standard Gauge Lionel Electric Rapid Transit Gondola Car. All original condition. Has what looks to be very early Lionel Trucks. Inside Gondola is painted the early looking Lionel yellow. Car is wood with brass construction. A great looking early train car we can't find any information on. Possible Lionel Prototype? 15" Excellent
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/lionel-electric-rapid-transit-gondola-train-car-126-c-8a14715bbb# (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/lionel-electric-rapid-transit-gondola-train-car-126-c-8a14715bbb#)
Now it's up for auction again with much clearer language about it being homemade:
Quote
Antique unidentified Electric Rapid Transit gondola with 1911 Lionel 10 series crimped trucks. The gondola measures 14 1/2 inches from one end to the other and 4 3/8 inches wide, it is constructed of wood and brass with what appear to be European couplers that would have worked with possibly a small bar in between cars or if another car had been made, maybe a tab that stuck into the coupler and pinned in. the lettering is all hand painted over red painted sides that show as yellow under a blacklight and yellow interior sides that show up as green under the blacklight. The piece was expertly constructed by a master craftsman where the brass pieces were drilled and tapped so that no screws would protrude inside OR outside. The base or frame is brass with a wood platform, the sides and rest of the body are all brass. It is hard to discount this piece as being insignificant historically but no other information can be derived from it as we have no access to the family that it came from.
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/141922036_antique-unidentified-electric-rapid-transit-gondola-with-lionel-10-series-trucks (https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/141922036_antique-unidentified-electric-rapid-transit-gondola-with-lionel-10-series-trucks)
We'll see what it brings this time around.
Post by: early0electric on December 13, 2022, 02:02:36 PM
Mike
Post by: early0electric on December 13, 2022, 02:10:01 PM
Mike
Post by: early0electric on December 31, 2022, 08:48:48 AM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/125690291464
Post by: starfire700 on January 01, 2023, 04:14:56 AM
Post by: Terry on January 01, 2023, 03:26:10 PM
Here's a set of interest:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/155338084657 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/155338084657)
It's a 156 loco and 3 cars. Loco has riveted couplers, but all other features are later period. The 610/612 cars have blue windows and no corp stamps.
I have a 156 and 156X with riveted couplers and pedestal light, but not this version.
You can see this has been worked on by looking at the wires, and I'd rather save my money for the spring auction season.
Post by: starfire700 on January 02, 2023, 04:06:18 AM
Post by: early0electric on January 02, 2023, 08:05:23 PM
The 156(X) appeared in 1922. Rivet couplers were no doubt long gone by then. I suggest you have a 156 with the pilot trucks missing.
Post by: Terry on January 03, 2023, 12:41:38 AM
156Xa1 Dark green, type 5 motor with brush tubes, black fiber with corp plate, diecast wheels with spokes, riveted couplers, pedestal headlight. No pilot trucks or hangers. This loco may have been assembled from spare parts in late 1920s?
Post by: starfire700 on January 04, 2023, 05:10:05 AM
Post by: early0electric on January 04, 2023, 01:44:51 PM
Post by: Terry on January 04, 2023, 03:45:57 PM
The weird 156 is this one:
156a1 Dark green, type 2 motor, black fiber plate with manufacturing plate, diecast wheels with simulated spokes, riveted couplers, pedestal headlight, holes in diecast wheels, no weights on pony trucks.
I've never seen a 703 with gold vents, but here's a 156 with them. With the exception of the pony wheels and the gold vents, this is the same as my 703. The number and the wheels means it was made later than the 703. The number can't be changed.
I could come up with a few different guesses about why this was made, but all would just be guesses. The only fact I can say is this was made AFTER the 703 locos. Date wise, I think it's no earlier than 1917 when the number change was made.
Here's a fun fact - Lionel made trains in Newark from 1913-16. In 1916 they moved to Irvington. 1916 is one of the years in standard gauge where a lot of odd items were made. Coincidence?
For the later mid 20s oddities like the 156X above, Lionel kept portions of Newark plant for use as storage into the mid 1920s when the Irvington plant was expanded. Coincidence?
Post by: starfire700 on January 05, 2023, 04:31:40 AM
Making Marx Trains in the 1990's and early 2000's, though we did not employ day workers, we did substitute parts when necessary to fulfill a product run. Ok, as a collector, I did embrace the idea of making variations, but the main reason was to get the product "out the door".
Post by: Terry on January 05, 2023, 12:01:17 PM
Post by: early0electric on January 05, 2023, 04:11:52 PM
Post by: starfire700 on January 06, 2023, 03:56:53 AM
Post by: Terry on February 03, 2023, 08:42:12 PM
He also has some nice Transition stuff. It's worth spending some time looking.
Here's a few lots with interesting stuff that Stout isn't calling out:
517 caboose with 4 LL plates and number on bottom:
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-standard-gauge-512-gondola-520-sear-74d435690d (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-standard-gauge-512-gondola-520-sear-74d435690d)
Note that the 520 floodlight car in the 517 caboose lot may be a terra cotta base overpainted in a slightly darker shade of 45n green. There's a boxed 212 in the darker shade of green in another listing.
Odd sheet brass representation of the big hopper I have. Clem saw mine at the TCA convention in 2009.
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/three-custom-plated-standard-gauge-freight-cars-1066-c-9434146b97?objectID=177396295&algIndex=upcoming_lots_lotNumber_asc_prod&queryID=72b37aa49b7a29040074d16ec86a0f2c (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/three-custom-plated-standard-gauge-freight-cars-1066-c-9434146b97?objectID=177396295&algIndex=upcoming_lots_lotNumber_asc_prod&queryID=72b37aa49b7a29040074d16ec86a0f2c)
Late bright red 217 caboose with brass plates. One of the rarest 200 series freight cars. There's also a 217 in red/peacock with a peacock capula in another listing.
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-standard-gauge-216-hopper-220-searc-3eb41b3930 (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-standard-gauge-216-hopper-220-searc-3eb41b3930)
Here's the whole listing:
https://www.invaluable.com/catalog/8qjvzqh3u0?page=1&size=192 (https://www.invaluable.com/catalog/8qjvzqh3u0?page=1&size=192)
I find it interesting to look at the handmade bastards and try to figure out what they started life as. In Antique Furniture a "Bastard" is a peice that was made from the remains of other peices. I see one of the steam locos started as a C&F powered unit, and many of the interurbans were Lionel Passenger cars.
Post by: Terry on February 25, 2023, 05:26:42 PM
The Lionel is crap, but the other trains are fantastic. If I had deep pockets I'd be after a bunch of those trains. Well worth a few minutes.
https://www.invaluable.com/catalog/4esjqy5hzs?page=1&size=48 (https://www.invaluable.com/catalog/4esjqy5hzs?page=1&size=48)
Here's something I like:
Knapp electric auto. It looks like it would connect to a pair of wires on one side and then run in circles around the battery
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/early-and-larger-knapp-electric-automobile-808-c-51b476683d?objectID=177831616&algIndex=upcoming_lots_lotNumber_asc_prod&queryID=ec5bc19c6438c8549208f5d314942bb9 (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/early-and-larger-knapp-electric-automobile-808-c-51b476683d?objectID=177831616&algIndex=upcoming_lots_lotNumber_asc_prod&queryID=ec5bc19c6438c8549208f5d314942bb9)
Here's an IVES Brute - check out the three motors:
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/gorgeous-and-incredible-ives-articulated-locomoti-807-c-15949a1a3d?objectID=177831626&algIndex=upcoming_lots_lotNumber_asc_prod&queryID=e0a3590a976c4ef1eb7e6c06578150a8 (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/gorgeous-and-incredible-ives-articulated-locomoti-807-c-15949a1a3d?objectID=177831626&algIndex=upcoming_lots_lotNumber_asc_prod&queryID=e0a3590a976c4ef1eb7e6c06578150a8)
Post by: Terry on March 20, 2023, 06:55:30 PM
A rusty 38. That has great patina. If that was a VW bug from the 1960s someone would buy it and buff it out.
You can still grab it for about a hundred + tax delivered.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/195659707709 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/195659707709)
Post by: Terry on March 23, 2023, 05:02:55 PM
My first impression was it's a 152 with the number 154 on the side. Looking more closely and lining up some items from my shelves to compare, it's a 154 cab on a 152 frame.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/234942399273 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/234942399273)
Post by: early0electric on March 24, 2023, 10:42:21 AM
Even though he eludes to it in the description he neglects to show the end of the loco which would provide the definitive proof of it being a late 154 body. There should be a cutout in the end for the late body to clear the screw head holding the hand reverse to the frame. If it was the early 154 body it would have the flaps which would never fit on a 152 frame.
Mike
Post by: Terry on August 13, 2023, 10:49:01 PM
Here's auction:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/394800057632
I think that's repainted. What do you think?
I don't want to bid and then send it back. But at the same time, I missed out on a late 42 in that color because I thpught it was repainted. The seller won't answer questions or send more photos.
Here's something else that's neat. Rare large window 6250 Seaboard switcher cab:
I had a 624 switcher with the same broken out window touched up to make a large window years ago. He says it's a factory replacement shell made from defective shell. I don't remember how many stantions the 624 had.
here's the listing:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/305070873635
Post by: early0electric on August 14, 2023, 10:45:17 AM
Post by: starfire700 on August 23, 2023, 04:02:58 AM
Post by: Terry on August 23, 2023, 03:02:36 PM
I never use the Fedex/USPS shipping option because I think it increases the chances of damage.
Here's what it looks like now:
It will be back in the mail to him tomorrow.
I get upset with buyers who don't take the time to read my descriptions. Last month one lazy buyer cost me $62 in round trip shipping.
But I missed out on a late 42 in this dark olive color a while back because I thought it was repainted and someone else grabbed it.
With ebay there is no risk involved, so I might as well buy it. If it's not as described return it with a not as described claim so I get postage both ways back. I could also have returned this as damaged and gotten shipping both ways back too!
This is the third or fourth time I've returned ebay purchases because they weren't as described. That's in 25 years of buying on ebay.
Post by: Terry on January 23, 2024, 04:17:34 PM
The listing says the loco box is dated 1930. I had that loco with and without the stripe. I think the stripe version is more common. The observation is common. Check out the factory error baggage with end doors. You see those in orange, but not often in other colors.
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/170189692_lionel-bailey-special-train-set-w-box (https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/170189692_lionel-bailey-special-train-set-w-box)
This 1930 Bailey Special Set looks to be assembled from obsolete inventory. They probably painted the locos up to match the cars. I think they did the same with the 253 in dark green with orange windows/cast headlight to get rid of dark green 610 cars.
Post by: early0electric on January 24, 2024, 08:34:38 AM
Post by: Terry on January 25, 2024, 04:17:25 PM
This one has been painted black everywhere except for the decaled areas. The blue cover TCA book shows a 114 like this that isn't repainted so at least 2 of these exist.
Here's the Stout listing if you want to see more pictures or follow the auction:
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-std-ga-114-scarce-b-o-boxcar-built--081497b921 (https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/lionel-prewar-std-ga-114-scarce-b-o-boxcar-built--081497b921)
Post by: Terry on March 17, 2024, 08:27:49 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/386866261606
At least I think so. . . I don't have an 822 with the number on the right or one with both ends lettered like the early 820 boxcars. There also might be cabooses out there with clipped corners on the main roof?
Post by: early0electric on March 20, 2024, 08:41:59 AM
Post by: T-man on March 20, 2024, 02:06:25 PM
Post by: Terry on March 21, 2024, 01:53:25 PM
The early black 33 without binding post is an example of something I thought existed and finally found after years of searching.
Post by: early0electric on March 21, 2024, 04:26:15 PM