Train99 Forum

Discussion Boards => General Discussion => Topic started by: pjdog350 on November 16, 2020, 07:55:49 AM

Title: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: pjdog350 on November 16, 2020, 07:55:49 AM
I like the prewar Lionel 1700E. When I was a kids in the late 1940's I got my uncle's 1700E that was chrome & red. I enjoy them around the Christmas tree. Some how in all my moves I lost it. I guess it must have been packed in a different box than all my steamers. I enjoy restoring Lionel I find on EBay. I think this forum is not into restoring but everybody is different. I currently have three Streamline 1700e' Most needing allot of attention. I've always put my Lionel stuff in real not water with a cup of tide. Let is sit for a few hours and the original paint will be off when you get the item out of the water. what does not fall off you can brush off with no trouble. The last few steamers I did I had allot of trouble. So I bought a sand blast from harbor freight. This thing is great.

Two days ago I blasted all the paint off a 1700e. This morning I sprayed primer on all three 1700 items. Now to select the paint color. There are so many different sets that Lionel produced. Plus my paint supplier seems to be on vacation sense March of 2020.  This year (2020) has really been nothing but trouble.

Anyway I thought I'd post some video's of the process sense I can't seem to get a picture small enough for this forum.

Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: pjdog350 on November 16, 2020, 08:04:52 AM
video: https://youtu.be/5EITL0iYJig

Jack
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: pjdog350 on November 16, 2020, 11:13:52 AM
I got paint on all the cars and ordered parts to reassemble the set. E-Unit, slide shoes, rivets to mount the trucks to frames.
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: Terry on November 17, 2020, 10:15:45 PM
checking new video embed function.

Just the url pasted in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EITL0iYJig&feature=youtu.be

Url inside board tags:

Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: pjdog350 on November 18, 2020, 04:23:03 AM
Hello Terry. Is there a problem with the Youtube video I posted?

I'm not sure what you mean by 'just the url passed in' ?
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: Terry on November 18, 2020, 11:11:36 AM
I was testing the new video feature I added to the board last night.

From now on when you paste the URL of a video, the board will make it work.
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: pjdog350 on November 18, 2020, 11:53:02 AM
Ok. I thought I was messing up your forum.  I’m going nuts waiting on parts to finish the 1700. I have two more coming from eBay. These are sweet runners. And making them in all different colors is very entraining. The 1700 didn’t have an e-unit and was silver only. The other ones I have do have e-units. I tried to wiring an unit but it didn’t work. I have great diagrams but the e-unit I tried is backwards and that cause me trouble. I’ll give my new e-unit I got from Bill Harrison a try in the morning. Maybe I messed up when I put new fingers in my old e-unit.  It’s a. Problem but that’s the fun of doing this. I’ll get it. It’s been a long time sense I rebuilt e-units. My eyes are older and my finger are not so steady anymore. Being old really sucks.
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: Terry on November 18, 2020, 12:13:33 PM
I  hold the e-unit in a pair of channel lock pliers. Then I use the ST-303 tool to line everything up, and squeeze.

Back when I fixed lots of trains, I could replace a drum in about 3 minutes. Now assuming I have the tools out on the desk, maybe 10 minutes to replace a drum.
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: pjdog350 on November 18, 2020, 12:24:10 PM
Took me an hour. But again the e-unit I replaced the fingers in is backwards to my diagram? The e-unit is cycling but it does not run. It did run once but that was it?
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: pjdog350 on November 18, 2020, 02:04:33 PM
Does anyone out here have a wiring diagram for a 1700E. The bottom brush holder has a screw going through the tab attached to the brush holder and also holds the brush holder assembly to the  motor frame. All the wiring diagrams I find show a wire from the e-unit going to each brush holder. That causes a short. Wiring the brush holder bottom brush to a Screw going into the frame is a dead short. My friend that has a 1700E I gave him in 2011 Has a e-unit and has only one wire going to the top brush holder. I runs fine in both directions.

So I’m at a loss as I can’t find any information to wire the e-unit in my 1700e’s with one wire to the brushes?
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: Terry on November 18, 2020, 02:33:28 PM
Here you go:

 


I posted a bit of e-unit advice in the how to section.
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: pjdog350 on November 18, 2020, 03:34:55 PM
Thanks terry. It’s so small even with a magnifying glass I’m have trouble. I can proably work with it. I’m think the other brush holder is saying ground on the diagram. You can email that to me. I think that’s the only one in the world. I’ve been looking for this all day.
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: pjdog350 on November 18, 2020, 03:42:43 PM
That’s good. I’ll give it a go in the morning. It’s dumb putting e-units in a 1700E but it just should be there. I’ll lock it out so it’s only going forward.

Thanks again

Jack
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: Terry on November 18, 2020, 03:43:13 PM
To embiggen point your mouse at the picture I posted and click once with the right button.

Then in the upper right corner there is a box with a diagonal line. That will embiggen it even more
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: pjdog350 on November 18, 2020, 03:54:28 PM
Great. Thanks again!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: pjdog350 on November 19, 2020, 05:05:39 AM
I tried put the e-unit in the Jr motor and followed the Diagram carefully. When I tried running the motor all I got was a light and a cycling e-unit. Motor did not run? I checked the wiring to the diagram. I had it correct. I decided I’d try new new e-unit. Again I double checked my wiring back to the diagram that Terry sent. It’s correct. Tried the motor again and got a red light on the MTH Z4000. Went back to the diagram, again it’s as shown in the diagram???

I’m not stupid. It’s the E-unit gods are against me. Maybe the gods are good friends with the X-wife? But somethings  not right here. So far it’s E-units 4 me 0. Sense the first e-unit I tried didn’t short out I went back to that one. As I removed the new e-unit and grabbed the unit to pull it out I grabbed the hot e-unit coil solder and cooked my thumb. At the time I thought maybe it’s time for a large hammer! Once the thumb felt better I put the old e-unit back in, double checked the soldering, connections, diagram. It’s good. Put the motor on the track and put power to the motor. Again I had a light, e-unit cycling but no movement? Got a flashlight and watched the e-unit drum rolling? WTH. I tapped the top of the E-unit a couple times and the motor took off like a shot. I turned off the power. Got the motor back in front of me and turned the e-unit arm off to see if it will still run. Nothing. I tapped the top of the e-unit again and the motor went the other way. But the arm is in the off position. I kept tapping the top of the e-unit and the motor would change direction However the motor does not keep running very long. The drum and fingers I installed are maybe 10 years old so maybe they need to be polished.

I gave up. Put the motor back to forward only. Went inside and got another cup of coffee. 

Sometimes things just need to be left alone and come back later and you may see the problem.

2020’s been a hard year!
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: Terry on November 19, 2020, 11:32:04 AM
I have problems with the steam switchers. I get to the point where I want to just throw it, and then put it aside for a while.
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: pjdog350 on November 19, 2020, 04:59:07 PM
After taking a break from the e-unit thing I’m pretty much thinking the fingers and drum have been sitting out in the garage in Florida heat and humidity for 7 or 8 years. I’ll bet they oxidized.

 My third Lionel streamliner showed up today I’ll probably take the new one apart in the morning. Soak the motor in mineral spirits. If I have time I’ll even sand blast the cars. But I will take the e-unit apart polish the drum & fingers. But that will be it for the day. I also got the parts to put the second JR back together. I think. It’s going to look great.

I only get an hour or so to do the trains. My wife requires attention all day. She’s got allot of health problems and I look after her. She took care of me for 36 years. Now its my turn to do the same.
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: pjdog350 on November 20, 2020, 07:12:59 AM
I have all the parts I need to put this 1700 Jr back together. I did it silver.

https://youtu.be/UGW7UsZ3--s
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: pjdog350 on November 20, 2020, 03:46:32 PM
Started putting this one back together. The silver paint is coming off in my hands as I handle the cars. Just a little but it’s still disturbing.

I have the trucks riveted to the frames and working the car bodies onto the frames. That’s not easy. So many tabs to line up. Plus I had to make two new tabs. I didn’t get but a little time to do the assembly today.
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: pjdog350 on November 24, 2020, 12:48:45 PM
I’m making good progress on this 1700. I got a proper e-unit installed that works great. I have the power unit and one coach together. The observation car I had to make two new tabs as the original one were very rusty and broke off. Getting the new tabs to line up is proving a little difficult.

When I was working on this 1700 I had some problems with the silver paint coming off in my hands. I put the bodies out in the sun yesterday and today I didn’t have any trouble with the paint at all. I hope to be done with this unit tomorrow. S&W parts had the 1700LL (Lionel Lines) board so I ordered 16 of them for all my train sets I’m doing.
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: pjdog350 on November 26, 2020, 10:56:59 AM
Almost done with the Lionel 1700E. I did get a 1700 E-Unit without a arm which is working great.
I have the thing put back together but still waiting on the 1700LL boards that say 'Lionel Lines' for the sides of the cars.
This one runs great.
 
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: Terry on November 27, 2020, 08:42:53 PM
I bake the paint. Turn the oven on so it preheats to about 200 degrees. Then put the painted trains in, and turn the oven off. Close the door. Supposedly it gives you a harder finish.
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: pjdog350 on November 28, 2020, 03:51:15 AM
Great idea Terry. I thought of putting them out in the sun. Still pretty warm here on Florida.

I use to put Engine castings in the oven to pull the cab roof out when bent. Working pretty well.
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: pjdog350 on January 06, 2021, 03:42:45 AM
While doing some maintenance on the first Lionel 1700 streamline I restored I broke one of the new tabs I made for the missing one. The body drop down the side and put a good scratch in the frame. I did have allot of trouble lining up the new brass tab when I first assembled it. Plus the silver paint keeps coming off on my hands whenever I handle it. I decided I’d try putting a clear coat over it and see how that works.

I’ve repaired the broken tab. I’ve removed the trucks (I hate rivets). Today I’ll apply a coat of clear.

I’m not using anymore of these rivets. Trucks will go back on with nuts & bolts. My local hardware store has some super nice round Allen headed black bolts that look good.
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: pjdog350 on January 06, 2021, 10:26:32 AM
This clear coat over the silver was not a good idea. Some of the silver turned rather gray while the rest stayed silver. I’m not happy. But I can always strip it and do another color. I have a few in mind.

There is allot to painting I do not understand. I guess like most things there is allot to know.

It’s still fun. Just to bring my state of mind up I bought another three car 1700. I need to add three more mainlines to the layout so like the rest of you and can run them all. I have allot of 054 MTH realtrax. Just need more straights. I even have some 042.
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: CNJRR on January 06, 2021, 10:51:41 AM
A couple of thoughts.
What brand paint did you use?
What brand clear coat was it?
Prime it?
Prep work?
A wipe down with alcohol (or something) before painting?
How many coats? How long of a wait in-between coats?
How long did they sit before you picked them up?
The humidity level must be high down there?
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: CNJRR on January 06, 2021, 10:56:36 AM
That diagram post #10 that Terry posted.
You do know if you click on it it enlarges?
Plenty big then.
EDIT, never mind I didn't see the Terry told you that. ::)
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: pjdog350 on January 06, 2021, 12:44:39 PM
Used Krylon silver
Used Krylon mat clear coat thin.
Krylon gray prime
Painted the Lionel 1700 two months ago silver.
Silver kept rubbing off so I thought some clear key help stop it.
I did wipe down with a prep cloth.
Just put on one thin clear coat.
Never did pick them up by hand. I use claps that I hold item I’m painting.
It’s Florida so humidity is a problem unless you have a controlled painting both which I don’t have.
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: CNJRR on January 06, 2021, 03:54:40 PM
After you sprayed on the clear coat, was the silver still coming off after it dried?
 
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: pjdog350 on January 06, 2021, 07:02:39 PM
NO
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: CNJRR on January 07, 2021, 07:48:57 AM
NO

Maybe just a bad can of paint?
I sit my cans in a bowl of warm/hot water for a while before I use them.
Then shake the you know what out of them.

I used to deliver chemicals to all the paint places.
One I used to go to was Rustoleum in Haggerstown, Md maybe once a week.
Years ago the changed their spray heads and I like many others didn't like them.
I asked why the change and was told that with the new head you didn't have to turn upside down to clear the nozzle. It stayed cleared.
Plus with the new head you could spray with the can upside down, sideways whatever and the paint would shoot fine.
They said with the old nozzles you couldn't do that.

I told them that I and a lot others hated them.  >:(

Maybe try baking them like Terry said?
I leave mine in my bay window to bake them with the heat of the sun.
I don't touch them for at least a week.
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: pjdog350 on January 07, 2021, 08:20:06 AM
CNCRR - I think maybe you may have hit on the cause. I use this clear to make water slide decals. I’m 99.9 % sure it’s not the spray.

It’s winter and we are having some rather cold weather for Florida. I think in my hurry to complete the Lionel 1700’s I was pushing the cold weather. In my old age I find that I’m a 24 hour nurse carrying for my sick wife. I only got an hour or maybe a little more for trains. So I tend to rush things.

Really no damage done. It’s just strip and repaint it. Been thinking of allot of different paint jobs I could do. Maybe even a little more realistic job. Brown frame, brown vestibules, brown nose & brown roof? Sides & tail yellow?

Or maybe a Southern (Green & white)?

You can see the color change in this pictures
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: CNJRR on January 07, 2021, 02:09:42 PM
Pictures do not represent what the naked eye sees, I know by looking at some of mine. :)

I think they look nice, maybe get out the air brush and weather them up a little?
That might take care of the different color problem?

If that is not to your liken, they you can repaint it.  :)
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: pjdog350 on January 07, 2021, 03:36:03 PM
When the weather gets warmer I will sand blast them and repaint them I have several paint ideas I’m working in my head.
Title: Re: Restoring Prewar Lionel Streamliner 1700E
Post by: pjdog350 on February 17, 2021, 11:40:28 AM
This is a Lionel streamline 1700 I got from Jim a few months ago. Jim cars where prefect. I got three cars from him with a working e-unit. I also got two cars on EBay that where a rusty mess. But with the sand blaster I got them all ready for paint. This was going to be a M10000 look alike but the gray primer turned out to be paint. I had nothing but trouble trying to paint over the gray paint. So I thought I'd wait until spring and redo the whole thing. Today was the first day I tried it. The first car kept coming lose from the power car. A vestibule problem. It also kept stopping. It need new slide shoes which I do have. I did manage to get a 1 minute video of it. These little 1700's sure are fun. Plus easy to work on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4QWNaGkX3A

There is also a video of the set before I did any work on it. It's on youtube called 'Lionel 1700 needs restoration'.