Topics

76

How To and Technical Information / Fixing Lionel 022 and 711 Remote Control Switches

« on: September 20, 2020, 01:31:46 AM »

I've been doing switches for my layout, and shot some pictures of the motors so I can share the way I clean the switch machines. The motor shown is an early prewar motor. Later motors have different slide assemblies and contacts, but function the same.

The 711 and 022 switches use the same motor, the only difference is the base and the rail diameter.

Here's instructions for 022 switches in a PDF.

After taking the switch machine off the switch, take the top off the motor. There are two different types of screws - the machine screws have the same threads all the way down the screw and go into the switch itself. The other screws have tapered threads and go into the plastic cases. The tapered threads are easy to spot because they usually have lines perpendicular to the threads. You might have lock washers on your screws.

Make sure when you put the switch back together you pay attention to the screws. You can force the wrong screw in, but will crack the mounts on the motor case.

 

Once you have the motor off, check to make sure the machine has no rust, corrosion, or damage. Check the cast ring the lantern goes on to make sure it is not broken. If the lantern ring is broken, or there is rust or any damage to the switch machine I don't fix it. Lionel postwar 022 switches are so cheap today that it is not worth the hassle of trying to get reliable performance out of a damaged switch.

Here's a nice looking switch machine:

 

If the switch motor is OK like the one above, clean the four contact areas circled in red on the picture below. These are momentary contact areas. When the switch is energized the slide moves breaking contact. I use an abrasive pen, you can use tuner cleaner or rubbing alcohol on a q-tip  or a bit of a rag , or an ink pen eraser. 

 

The areas marked with red Xs are where connections are made with pins that do not move. The two center ones are for the positive current and don't need to be cleaned if you are using the fixed voltage pin. The four corners are for the current from the non-derailing rails. A simple wipe for these is enough. If the non derailing feature doesn't work when you test it, you can spend more time examining these connections.

The next thing you do is check the spring that holds the lock down. It rarely breaks, but sometimes it's off or gone. It's shown in the photo below in the proper position.

 

Then check the wire from the bulb base to the fixed voltage pin. (Later motors have the wire routed differently usually they are OK, sometimes the early motors like this one have damaged insulation on this wire.

 

That wire is OK. If your wire is damaged, you can repair it with electrical tape or replace it.

The next step is to clean the movement and check operation. NEVER USE OIL ON THE SWITCH MOVEMENT. It will attract dust and cause problems. I brush the switch down with a dry brush and the use a dry toothbrush on the areas circled in yellow to insure there is no dirt blocking the movement.

 

Work the switch back and forth by hand with a lantern inserted into the lantern ring. If there is any resistance it will be in one of the areas circled in yellow above.

Once the movement is fluid, put a drop of dielectric grease on the four slide contacts. I put a small drop on two of the contact plates and then use a finger to move to it to the other plates. This is an optional step, but I've found the grease helps the switch contacts work for longer. The LGB brand shown works good and has a smaller hole than the Permatex brand availible at any auto parts store.

 

You can also see the abrasive pen I use.

Then connect power leads to a fixed voltage pin and the base and test the switch with by touching the center post to an outer post. If you have small screwdrivers with a palm brace like the one shown below, you can just roll the brace back and forth and the switch should throw each time.

 

 

Next we'll look at the base of the switch.

77

Collector Corner / Lionel Postwar 6561 with tan cable reels?

« on: August 28, 2020, 12:47:21 PM »

Here's something for you postwar collectors. This set came from a woman in Sun City. Her Brother had Lionel trains, he died, and the trains ended up in her garage. She sold them to me.

 

It's a 2026 loco with a 6466W tender that was in a 2466W box with the number overstamped to 6466W. The tender says 6466W on the bottom, but has the 2466 style electromagnetic coupler. That could have been changed by someone with a screwdriver, but the wires look right.

No one cares about the tender.

The interesting thing here is the 6561 flat with cable reels. I've never seen that color cable reel before.  Here's some close up pictures.

 

 

What do you think?

78

Collector Corner / Lionel trains marked for export

« on: August 24, 2020, 02:41:16 AM »

In the thread on odd Lionel 250 series locos, I posted a photo of an export 4 loco with 254 plates.

 

I don't have a picture of the interior stamp of the 254, but here's three 800 series cars marked for export:

 

 

I bought those at a TCA convention in the late 1980s, and sold them with the rest of the trains made after 1925.

I know there are small 1930s era 4 wheel cars with the same stamp, and also passenger cars in the 610 and 607 series.  I think I saw a red top Flying Yankee with the cars but not the engine marked with similar stamps.

This is an unexplored area of Lionel Collecting.

79

General Discussion / Your Favorite Postwar Lionel Loco?

« on: July 30, 2020, 06:59:15 PM »

We have people that come in and look at the forum but then leave. Maybe this will interest you. . .

I don't collect postwar, but have some. I have my dad's GG1 and 622 switcher sets, and a NP geep set like the one I had a kid. Those are sentimental trains.

My favorite is this 2331 black and gold Virginian. I don't know why. I was in the original owner's garage with the loco in my hand and I decided to keep it.

What's your favorite postwar loco?

80

General Discussion / Lionel Green 820 Santa Fe boxcar on a 1916 XMAS layout.

« on: July 28, 2020, 10:15:39 PM »

I am slowly moving old pages on the website over to the new blog format. I found these pictures of a 1916-18 train layout.

These vintage photos show either a 706 or an early 154 loco with TWO green 820 boxcars.

I'll check to see if I can get better scans of the pictures.

Here's a link

https://train99.com/layouts/1916-o-gauge-train-layout/

Here's an 820 in green for comparison:

 

81

General Discussion / Searching for trains on eBay

« on: July 06, 2020, 11:15:49 PM »

I use a computer with a big monitor to search ebay for new trains for the collection.

I am curious about what devices you use. I get questions about my listings that must be coming from phone users.  Today on the phone I was told I needed to check my listings on my phone to see what my gallery images look like.

Here's my listing for a Santa Fe F3 in ebay's phone app.

 

My listing is the $150 one in the middle. The app forces shoppers to scroll down past 4 sponsored ads for lionel related crap and click to read past the first paragraph break in the description. 

I also checked with the google chrome browser, and it appears about the same.

People actually drop hundreds of dollars on trains using their phones?

My other question is how do you search? I have bookmarked searches set up for what I collect that I check for new listings a few times during the day with the hope I'll find great deals on buy it now items. I get something just often enough to keep doing it.

Those searches also bring up all the O gauge listings on eBay I want to look at. I also look at all the "lionel" listings in the standard gauge category ending in the next 11 days once a week. I can't search for the cars or 5,6, and 7 steam locos because there are too many results. Right now there are 2615 results for the search "Lionel 16"

I don't think anyone sits like we did 20 years ago and looks at everything in the categories.  How do you do it?

82

Collector Corner / Wartime Lionel Train Items by Madison Hardware

« on: June 17, 2020, 03:23:58 PM »

During World War 2 Lionel was not allowed to make trains. They made compases and other items mostly for the Navy.

Madison Hardware in NYC bought bins of obsolete and quality rejects for parts. During the war, the store assembled them into trains.

Here's some of them:

 

The upper right car has holes in the deck for a 820 type searchlight housing. It's missing from the car.

Here's some more:

 

Madison made the flat cars by taking the bases off tank cars and boxcars and adding stakes. Floodlight car got extra holes for the light base. The cars were painted black and then had trucks attached.

They took the tops from the tank car and the box cars and mounted them on wood using wood screws. The cars were then painted black and trucks added with wood screws.

The gondolas were just painted black and then had trucks atatched.

On all these cars you can see damage to the lithographing under the black paint. They were probably rejected by Lionel and then thrown into bins were more damage occured.

Here's a cool car:

 

I bought this car from John Cox after his father Al died. It's shown in the blue covered 2nd edition of the TCA  book on page 159. Might be the only surviving example.

These pictures are from Stout Auction when I sold most of my  trains made after 1925.

83

General Discussion / Width of Lionel 47 crossing gate roadway?

« on: June 14, 2020, 11:03:51 PM »

I went to mark the roads on the layout and realized I need to put the 47 double gates in since they define the roads. I can't find one.

Can someone tell me how wide the white roadway is and how wide the green end is? The white area plus the two green ends is the overall length.

Thanks.

84

Collector Corner / Lionel X-816NA postwar Uncat set from 1959

« on: June 06, 2020, 10:55:16 PM »

I bought this set from the original owner a few months ago. The trains aren't anything special, I saw the box and had to have it.

Here's the box:

(The dog's name is Pudgy, she always checks to make sure no cats sneak into the house in the train boxes I bring home.)

Here's the box end with number:

The box is 33 inches long, 17 inches wide and 7 inches tall.

It came with the trains on the top of the box, a bunch of track and the remains of a trestle set.

Trains are 217 Boston and Maine AB, 6062 Gondola with Cable Reels, 6819 flat with Christmas trees, 6823 flat with ICBM missles, 6826 flat with helicopter and 6017 Caboose.

The trains don't explain why the box is so big. I originally thought it might have had one of those long plastic bridges to go with the trestle set, but that leaves a bunch of room in the box. 

The loco dates the set to 1959 or later, but if it was later the set would appear in Schmidt's book. Looking at 1959 production, Lionel sold a large cardboard ticket booth that year.

I did a search on Google for Lionel X-816NA brings up a 2009 Lionel Roars  article by Paul Ambrose. It does come with a Ticket booth and a hat.  It was a 1959 unadvertised special set sold by one Department store in each town. He was showing a different set and included the Lionel Dealer ad showing that set and this one. 

His article is on page 20 of the June 2009 Lion roars.

https://www.lionelcollectors.org/!userfiles/editor/docs/TheLionRoars/vol38-no5-jun09.pdf

I went to a show in LA in March and Bob at the table next to me had a ticket booth for $50 so I bought it to see if it fits in the box.

Here's the ticket booth on top of the set box:

 

Looks like it fits.

Paul Ambrose's article refers to an article in the Jan. 1993 TCA Quarterly. I dug that issue out and found no new information. I did get a better shot of the orginal flyer for the set. It's a paper sized sheet with 8 of the department store NA sets.

Here's the corner with the set:

Neat stuff.

85

Collector Corner / Lionel 601 602 and 603 early O passenger cars.

« on: May 28, 2020, 04:33:41 PM »

I showed the bottoms of these cars earlier and Mike said maybe trucks were wrong? The greenberg starts with 602C, but does show the earlyist car on page 55 in a 706 set.

Here's what I have:

Two cars with the long or half moon trucks and wide tread wheels. The 602 baggage has slots in the bottom and no lettering. All my baggages have door handles.

The 601 pullman hs no slots or lettering on the bottom. NYC over windows is serif lettering 3.75 inches long.   

Here's the two cars:

 

 

I have three 601 pullmans with window film between the insert and the car body. I don't have a baggage to match these. They have the type 2 truck with two cutouts, and WIDE tread wheels. Frames have slots and The Lionel Lines/ New York/ Made in USA on bottom. NYC over windows is serif lettering 3.75 inches long.   

Here's one of them:

 

 

Then I have another dark green set with the later trucks. This is the one with the block lettering over the doors on the 602. The baggage does not have slots, but does have the The Lionel Lines stamp. This car also has one truck with dimples. The NYC over windows on 601 pullman is 3.125" long, bottom has slots, but no stamp.

Here they are:

 

 

That's it for the dark green ones.

86

Collector Corner / Lionel 33 Loco Body Types

« on: May 25, 2020, 01:02:18 AM »

I've gone way down the rabbit hole in my collecting of 33 locos. I'm close to having two dozen of them. A lot of them are similar looking, but have different body parts.

I look at three areas of the body. . . The headlight hood, the center section or cab, and the bell hood. You cannot change these parts as they are soldiered together and then painted.

I collect based on headlights. There are three types of headlights and three types of hoods to match them.

 

• A - Earliest style with slide on headlight.
• Ab - transition with slots for slide on headlight and an extra hole for a pedestal headlight.
• B - Middle style with pedestal headlight.
• C - Last style with strap headlight.

Here's pictures of the type B (front) and Ab (back):

 

Here's a shot of the inside of Ab showing the slots:

 

I also collect based on the bell hoods. There are 4 types of bell hoods:

• A - Earliest style with two holes. This hood is the same hood without the ears for the slide on headlight.
• B - Middle style with 3 holes. This is the same as the pedestal headlight hood.
• C - Second middle with 3 holes with end hole larger for binding post.
• D - Last style with 2 holes with end hole larger for binding post.

The hoods should match up chronologically. Like this:

• A) Slide on hood comes with A) 2 hole bell hood.
• Ab) Slide on hood with pedestal headlight comes with A) 2 hole bell hood.
• B) Pedestal hood comes with B - Middle style with 3 holes. This is the same hood on both ends.
• B) Pedestal hood comes with C - Second middle with 3 holes with end hole larger for binding post. 
• C) Strap hood comes with C - Second middle with 3 holes with end hole larger for binding post. 
• C) Strap hood comes with D - Last style with 2 holes with end hole larger for binding post.
• C) Strap hood comes with strap hood on bell side. I don't know if this is a factory error or if this is last production. See post on 5-28-2020 for more on this.

FROM HERE DOWN THIS THREAD HAS INFORMATION about the different hoods as we figure out changes to the lists above.

I think there should be locos out there with pedestal headlights on one end and the type A 2-hole bell hood. 

It would be either in dark green or black with a u-frame and either 6 or 4 cast iron wheels.

But I haven't found one yet.
From the side it would look like this. . .

 

But that's not it. That's just the earliest pedestal version with the same hood on both ends.

Here's a close up:

 

But if you look closely there is something odd about this loco.

Here's the weird black loco next to a dark olive loco that is identical in all features except the odd handrails.

 

This is the first one of these I've seen.

While I'm on the subject of hoods, I think there should be very late locos with two strap headlight hoods and no binding posts. The 38 and 42 locos are found this way, but I haven't seen a 33 yet. More on late versions without binding posts later.

[/list]

87

Collector Corner / Factory Errors versus Clean Outs

« on: May 20, 2020, 01:10:37 AM »

I was writing eBay listings for trains I used to collect, but don't want anymore and I found a few odd 4-wheel cars.
First is a common 902 peacock gondola. Nothing special about it.

 

But if you look at the other side, you see it has three Lionel plates and only one number plate:

 

I call this a factory error. The person putting the plates onto the car, put the wrong one on.

Here's a different car:

 

This is an uncataloged 807 caboose from about 1935 with brass number plates and nickel Lionel plates. You can find this same variation in the 804 tank car.

I think this is more of a clean out. The Lionel plates went on everything. They'd certainly use the brass ones up.

Terry

88

Collector Corner / Lionel Prewar Remote Couplers

« on: May 19, 2020, 12:39:18 PM »

In the 2245T tender thread, Jim asked when plastic nibs started on the coupler slider shoes.

Here's his picture:



I saw this instruction sheet and figured it might have clues about the evolution of the remote coupler.

(Click on picture to open viewer, then click on box with arrow in corner to supersize it so you can read it. Use triangles to move to next picture to see back side.)

 

 

Copyrigt date of 11-38:

 

These talk about fibre board insulating sheets that a service station can attach to couplers.  I've never seen these sheilds. From reading the sheet it sounds like it was an envelope with sheilds and instruction sheet.

This show Lionel was aware of problems with the couplers in 1938. 

Maybe items might help dating couplers. The 1939 2226W tender that my Grandfather bought in Dec. 1939 does not have nibs.

Both my 3814 Merchandise cars with decals do have nibs. That car was introduced in 1939.

Terry

89

How To and Technical Information / What are these parts?

« on: May 17, 2020, 02:32:59 PM »

I'm sorting parts.

I found these and don't know what they are:

 

Big double selenoid was rivited to a base. Maybe a flyer standard gauge switch machine?

The small handrail stantions have two holes for rails. They are nickel. The parts I was sorting that was in go from mid teens to about 1985. Could be from anything.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

90

General Discussion / Changes to pictures

« on: May 15, 2020, 09:44:25 PM »

I changed the photo options on the board.

Now you can do 12 photos per post. Each photo can be up to 180KB in file size. If you try to upload a picture greater than 180KB the post will fail.

While writing a post, you can insert a thumbnail of the picture into your text by clicking insert after browsing to the picture you're going to upload with the link to the right of the upload image line.

It will look like this:

You don't have to upload all your pictures to insert them, just put them into the attachment area so you have an insert link.

(If you already uploaded pictures into the forum, you can modify your posts to put the pictures into the text with the modify link in the right corner of each of your posts. They will not have the veiwer features explained below. They will act the same as they were acting before today's changes.)

When clicked on, the thumbnails open in a viewer. There are controls in the upper right corner.

• The arrows move from image to image within the thread. This means if Paul posts a picture and Jim posts one in a reply, you can compare them with the arrow key.
• The triangle makes the images in the post rotate like a slide show when you click on the triangle repeatedly.
• The box with with arrow in corner makes the picture maximum size.
• The X closes the image viewer. You can also click on the picture to close it.

Here's another thumbnail. . . click on it to check out those features.

 

I did see a modification that would put text near the image saying click to enlarge, but that is not compatible with these features so I couldn't install it. We'll all get used to clicking to see the pictures like we do on eBay.

NEAT.


A few other notes since I have your attention. If you bookmark this page:

https://www.train99.com/forum/index.php?action=unread

You should get a list of all posts and replies since your last visit. On the RIGHT of each topic past the time posted is a little document with an arrow. That's a link to the portion you haven't seen.

When I use a board like this, I go to the page above and then read down the list of topics and open the ones I want to read or continue to read in new tabs.

Here's the link again:

https://www.train99.com/forum/index.php?action=unread


Below are  a bunch of posts by me building out what is explained above. You can ignore it. Or check out the pictures of some 33 locos. I think gray 33s are interesting. I have gray 33 locos  from about 1916 all the way to the end of production.

Here's some pictures.   These might not have the features explained above.