Author Topic: ODD 16 hopper  (Read 461 times)

starfire700

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ODD 16 hopper
« on: July 01, 2020, 03:46:19 PM »
Do you have any history on the 10-series ballast car on the top shelf. It looks like an elongated #116. I have a "vintage reproduction" of this car in gray with yellow primer underside and (Ives number) 196 and NYCHRRR lettering in silver. It is well-made and very convincing, but I am sure it is a re-creation, by Jim Cohan or Joe Mania. It was purchased about 20 years ago in a group of legitimate 10-series cars at one of the York pre-shows. Either the maker was aware of your car, has seen another, or just made an educated guess of what Lionel could have made, and made it.
I posted a photo of this car in another category a while back.

Terry

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Re: ODD 16 hopper
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2020, 08:12:22 PM »
I bought that car at a train show here in AZ for $30 or 35 thinking someone -- not a Lionel employee -- made it, but the trucks were worth that. It came off a table of HO stuff that one of the local clubs was selling. The seller had no other tinplate.

If Cohen had made the car I have, I think the construction would be better.  There is no lettering on the car, and it's not square. It has threaded rods or screws to hold the trucks. It's not made very well.

It does look old. The finish and patina look great. Someone  - maybe Marty Visnick or Chuck Brasher told me the finish looked like it had spent years in a unheated basement or attic. That makes it crackle like that.

During the 2009 TCA convention, people came over Friday afternoon. That car got more interest than anything else except maybe the cream stripe 400E.

The TCA western division website has a picture of a similar car in black with New haven script lettering saying it is one of two made. Maybe you have the other one of those?

Here's the TCA division page. Picture is near bottom on right hand side.

http://tcawestern.org/cohen.htm

I surely got my $35 worth out of the car. I'll post some better pictures of it when I get some time.

Terry


Terry

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Re: ODD 16 hopper
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2020, 03:53:29 AM »
I just went downstairs and looked at the hopper car.

It's the original sides, floor and dump parts of a 116 hopper. The sides on a 116 hopper are bent to form the ends. On this car the sides aren't bent to form the ends resulting in a longer car. A section of metal was added to the floor to become the end of the car. This was then framed out (poorly) with scraps of tin to make the longer end.

Not counting the 116 parts, there are three new parts on this car -  frame and end extensions (2), Bent angle sections making the corner verticals (4), and the frame extensions between the original floor and the end of the car.

This car was either made with unbent 116 sides or by opening up the ends on a 116 hopper and adding parts.

The car sides don't show creases where the bends would be on a 116 side. The beading at the top where a wire goes is slightly bent at those 4 points though.

The car is painted in maroonish brown that matches the early paint. No primer. No lettering. No Lionel MFG stamped into frame parts.
 
Here's some photos showing details. I tried to show the metal where the 116 sides would be bent. When you look at the bottom of the car on the side with the truck attached you can see the holes where the truck and coupler pin go on the original 116 floor. The other end has the added metal under the 116 floor so you can't see the holes except by looking in the end of the car.

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I don't have a 116 unpacked yet. I'll get one out and shoot a bunch of photos of them together.


starfire700

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Re: ODD 16 hopper
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2020, 05:21:28 AM »
Judging from you description and photos, I would be inclined to consider it might be a prototype. Especially, as it is made from un-formed 116 sides, that show no evidence of ever being bent. The dump-mechanism (paddle and rod), also look to be Lionel production. The condition of the finish adds credibility to the theory, as do the 3-rivet trucks. Looks to me like you have a winner.
The one that I have, looks like the Cohen one on the TCA page, but came to me with single-rivet Lionel trucks. 

starfire700

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Re: ODD 16 hopper
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2020, 05:43:51 AM »
Photos of my Cohen 16. It has closed-in ends, unlike yours and mine also has a non-functional dump-paddle, with short lever. Some close-ups shown. It probably is the other that is referenced in the TCA page.

starfire700

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Re: ODD 16 hopper
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2020, 05:45:10 AM »
underside shows yellow primer, short-crinkle couplers

Terry

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Re: ODD 16 hopper
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2020, 01:08:23 AM »
We'll never know who made it, but I'm sure I got $35 worth out of it.

I sent a note to Mark Boyd asking if he wants an article about the hopper for the TCA Q Maybe we can get some more people into the forum that way.