1915 87 Controlling Rheostat For Lionel Racing Cars

[starfire700]

Have any of the collectors of early Lionel ever seen one of these. It is a #87 Controlling Rheostat with original box for Lionel racing cars, c. 1912 to 1916.
This number is not listed in the TCA Standard of the World book, and I could not find it in any of the catalog  between 1912 and 1916.
Note on the box is a reference to another rheostat, #86, also has never been reported.

[Terry]

That is COOL. I had to look at it twice to figure it out.

The racing car set was made 1912-16. The regular rheostat #88 was introduced in 1915. Does this mean the rheostat was developed for use with the race cars, and then modified somehow to be used with trains? Or does it mean they made different heostats in 1915 for different applications and then dropped all but the 88 in later years?

[starfire700]

Since my #87 looks like a #88, I would say the rheostat could have been developed for the race car sets. Unfortunately with no confirmation of date the of #87 in the catalogs, this is only a deduction. The notation on the box references a #86 for DC voltage. Quite possibly they eventually settled on one rheostat and gave it #88. Later Rheostats (1920's to 30's) #81 and #95 evolved to have metal coverings over the coils. Standard of the World also references a rotary Rheostat from the teens. I assume it is the wood-base model #108, that I have seen, which I always thought was made by Ives. The book does not have a photo of the 108, but I think I have one somewhere.   

[Terry]

I checked numbers in the back of the TCA book, and the items in the 80 series numbers are the cars and car sets. There is no 83 during those years, but otherwise the cars are 81-85, then 86 is the dc car rheostat mentioned on your box, and 87 is what you show, then 88 for the common one.

I thought about the factory address as a date, but they were there from about 1912 to 1926 or so.

I've been thinking for a while now that Lionel dumped the early period trains and parts in the mid 1920s. Now that I checked the factory addrersses, I see another reason why they would have dumped inventory. They moved!

[early0electric]

Ah yes, a rare beastie indeed. The only one I have ever seen was in a TM price guide. As a matter of fact, after comparing the picture to yours, yours IS the one from the guide. 

[starfire700]

It looks like you are right. Mine was purchased at least 10 years ago, from another KY seller.  He got it in a box-lot from a Stout auction, back when Stout still had box-lots for the attending crowd.
It would be interesting to know who owned it and sent it to auction. I don't think that I sent this photo to Tom M, although I have helped him with input for guides and videos in the past. 

[early0electric]

I believe it's the 2011 guide. I never bought it but I remember it had nice pictures of some early items.

[early0electric]

In my collection of early period Lionel O gauge I also have a pair of early Lionel race cars. The condition isn't as good as I'd like but I'm happy to have them. The motors in both run well, but I'm stymied by the chassis. As you can see, the red one has the little wheel guides for the track but the blue one has an altogether different set up. The Blue one also has a different motor. I saw one other like the blue one at auction but for the life of me, I can't find it or the picture I downloaded.
 

[starfire700]

I have owned only 1 of these cars in my lifetime, no longer have it and never had the track. My undercarriage and pick-up looked like your red one. These are so scarce, it is hard to say if your blue one is a post-production modification, or a Lionel factory variation. I just watched the TM John DeSantis video and saw that he has a collection of these cars and a layout of track.

[early0electric]

The motor in the red one has 9 lamination's which I believe is typical. The blue car motor has 11 lamination's which is typical of trolleys from 1912 - 1916 which is the correct time frame for Lionel's racing automobiles. As a matter of fact, I did show it to John and he thought it was done by some previous owner to make a "hot rod". I also showed it to my friend Joe Mania, who is also a standards committee member, and he thought it just might be original. So there you go. Without someone who was alive at the time and worked for Lionel, it's just another mystery lost to the ages. Nonetheless, an interesting piece.

[starfire700]

Speaking of Joe Mania, I contacted him some time ago about parts for a Lionel No 6. I did not hear back, then messaged him a few weeks ago and he said he had eye surgery. Have you heard if he is OK? I did not want to bother him again if he is having sight problems.

[early0electric]

Jim, Like I said, I've sent you numerous responses to your question about Joe since you posted through this Train99 site. Have you or have you not received them? I've gotten no indication.
Mike

[starfire700]

I have heard nothing from him

[early0electric]

But have you received my messages?

[starfire700]

Yes, was having trouble with that email