Double heading postwar Lionel

[CNJRR]

Did you make sure that the drawbars are not hitting the center rail?

[pjdog350]

Yes I did. I put electrical tape On it. Plus double checked it to be sure the bar was clear of the center rail and completely covered.

After the failure the Z4000 seemed upset with postwar locomotive but would run modern. 

I was surprised that the circuit breaker was not tripped which also tells me that there was NOT a short to the center rail. It’s just high amp old LIONEL engines can’t do double heading on an MTH transformer? maybe?

[starfire700]

I just had a similar problem with a prewar 224E. It shorted, did not run, but the motor ran out of the casting. Brush tube-contact strips were touching the casting. A small piece of electrical tape was the fix, now it runs fine. I guess an old dog can learn a new a new trick.

[pjdog350]

Same thing with my 224. I think my motor is a 675 motor. I had the brush tube hitting the casting.

[pjdog350]

I’ve been surfing the net looking at max amps using a MTH z4000 transformer. Found a guy that was drawing 11 amps and the z4000 was still working. He was running two modern diesels. He had it to a max of 187 watts.

So I still don’t understand why my 675 & 224 failed?

[pjdog350]

Just so the engines would match I got another 675 this morning. I'll will repaint so it will match my other one. Plus the new 675 will get a coupler mounted to the steam chest like Jim did with his 225E's.

[starfire700]

I am in the process of modifying a 675 pilot for a coupler, to use in a future double-header video. The problem is height. I am going to use a coil type coupler (not operating) on a shank from a postwar Irvington car. The shank has to be just above the pilot teeth to line-up with the coupler on the front tender. It will take some extreme grinding to get it to that level and has to have clearance to pivot. I may just have to lop-off the pilot teeth even with the pilot beam and mount the shank to the underside of what is left. I hate to destroy a perfectly good pilot............
Any ideas on a better method?

[pjdog350]

I’ve been thinking allot on this subject. I think I had a good set up but the problem was the MTH z4000 transformer I’m sure. But at the time I was trying the new coupler out it went about 10 feet and hit an 031 curve. Almost completed the curve when it stopped. I thought the copper bracket had hit the center rail. But the breaker never tripped? Plus I had electrical tape on the bottom of the bracket. The assembly look really nasty bit I was just trying to get something that worked and I could make a pretty one after the system seemed to work.

As a software engineer I learned never change more than one thing at a time when working a problem. But I did. As I age my level of tolerance is much shorter than when I was 40 years old. I got frustrated and and put it all aside for while. I do my best work when asleep. I decided one morning I should get two matching engines (675’s) so they may be paired up better. Make a bracket coming from the top of the steam chest. Drill a 256 hole in the top of the steam chest and tap it. Use a black round headed bolt with a collar so the bracket can swivel. Have the bracket step down so the coupler can match the proceeding tenders coupler. With it all painted black and close to the teeth it should look fairly good. Of course the coupler will be to large but that’s what we have.

When not doing the double heading you can remove the coupler from the steam chest and put the bolt back as not to have a hole in the steam chest.

By have the assembly on top you don’t have to worry about hitting the center rail.

I ran the new 675 all morning and got it running as good as my first 675. I want to repaint it with the same paint as my first engine. Replace the smoke unit with a liquid unit which arrived two days ago.

Currently I Have three projects going. The double heading, the M10000 1700 which is not going well, and the 259E which is having paint problems just like the 1700. Also my parts guy is not taking care of my parts orders. I’m real worried about him as he is always been perfect sense the mid 1980’s. I hope he is oK. Something is not right with him? But I’m not going to pester him anymore. He will get my parts when he can?

Please keep us posted on your progress with the double heading. I think your 225E’s have a coupler mount on the top of a steam chest. I’ve watched your 225E’s many times. 

[pjdog350]

Jim:

Rather than cutting the teeth off why not slot the teeth at the top in order to slide the mount in and then pin the mount to the underside of the pilot? Food for thought, maybe.

I think I may try that! Think I’ll get a spare steam chest and give it a go?

[starfire700]

I started the project on a pilot I had in the parts box, similar to your suggestion, on what I thought was same as for an early 675, 2025 loco. I drilled 1/8" holes into it, standing-up on the drill press, drilled just above the pilot teeth. I then connected the holes by hand-filing to make a perfect slot. The stress of this modification cracked the pilot beam, just in front of the steps. Looking at the pilot, there is an inherent weakness there, as the material is thicker on the top and bottom, but this thickness meets, does not overlap, at the line in front of the steps. The material must very thin at that hairline and results in a crack. I also realized that I was working on a 226E pilot, that not only does not fit the 675, it will not accept the smoke unit. I will try again today.
If you try this, take it slow so the pilot does not crack like mine did.

[pjdog350]

Howdy Jim:

Thanks for your progress. I was thinking of going to a machine shop and requesting the work. I left my good drill press in Louisiana when we moved. I think my dremel press is to small for the job. A picture is worth a 1000 words. Picture of the results.

I ordered a 675 pilot on ebay. I think I’ll wait for it rather than screw up the current pilot that’s on the 675.

[starfire700]

I shot some pix of the 675 / 2025 front coupler project. The oversized drill bit is not the one used, this picture is staged after the fact.
Pix show
drilling into pilot in and around the simulated coupler box
the slot with holes connected by hand-filing (a slow process, but also caused the stress crack)
the stress crack at meeting point between thickness on top and bottom of the pilot platform
slot from underside
my 226E, acquired with front coupler installed by another. It has the crack and brass strip repair, but he also added a pivot slot for better action on curves

[starfire700]

I also showed the Irvington car coupler I am using, It will mount with a pin, behind the existing hole. The coil type coupler should stay closed, as long as the coil is not activated, no plans to make it operate.

[starfire700]

Also note that the pilot modified in these photos is for a prewar 226E, grabbed by mistake out of parts drawer. It is not a 675 / 2025 pilot, but modifications and stress crack issue are identical.

[pjdog350]

Looks good Jim. I think your on to a very good solution. I like it.

I Would think a little JBweld would work for the stress crack. I know a guy back in the 80’s that repaired a Iron Duke 4 cylinder motor in a boat that had a large hole in the exhaust manifold. I knew it would fail but much to my surprise it worked for years.

I will make a brass link with a coupler doing just what you have shown!